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[MostlyBonkers]

By all means.

Smooth acceleration: the DCT box handles this very well.

Low maintenance: the NC has longer service intervals than a lot of ICE bikes, but EV's win here.

Maximum torque available through the rev range: The DCT does a good job of keeping the engine where it produces the most torque. The torque multiplication of using gears makes up for the shortfall in maximum torque compared to an electric motor.

Good for the environment: the NC has very low emissions for an ICE bike. Zero wins here of course.

Those are some of the positives for electric I can think of right now. Please note I'm not mentioning any of the negatives. Don't get me wrong, I'd love an SR but I can't afford one. I also only want to run one bike and it has to be reliable all year round in all weather conditions. Zero aren't there yet IMHO.

[Chocula]

By all means.

Smooth acceleration: the DCT box handles this very well.

Low maintenance: the NC has longer service intervals than a lot of ICE bikes, but EV's win here.

Maximum torque available through the rev range: The DCT does a good job of keeping the engine where it produces the most torque. The torque multiplication of using gears makes up for the shortfall in maximum torque compared to an electric motor.

Good for the environment: the NC has very low emissions for an ICE bike. Zero wins here of course.

Those are some of the positives for electric I can think of right now. Please note I'm not mentioning any of the negatives. Don't get me wrong, I'd love an SR but I can't afford one. I also only want to run one bike and it has to be reliable all year round in all weather conditions. Zero aren't there yet IMHO.

I was thinking the benefits were:
Always has a full "tank" when I leave the garage.
The bike does not stink of gasoline.
More importantly, I don't stink of gasoline after working on or refueling the bike.
No waiting for the engine to warm up.
Quiet as not to irritate my neighbors when warming up or riding down the street.
No exhaust stink.
No hydrocarbon emissions to deteriorate my wetsuits that are hung in the garage.
My current Honda is nowhere near as smooth.
My Honda's fuel efficient rpm range is nowhere near its power range.
No hot exhaust system to burn yourself on.
Electric is still a unique ride.
I get to charge for free and park 2 blocks closer to my building on campus.
I spend less time adjusting and more time riding my electric than my ICE Honda.
I don't get covered in as much gross stuff when working on the electric.
Easier to keep clean as there is less stuff that can leak or ooze and collect grime.
There are probably some environmental benefits too.
Cheaper to fuel, but you pay for it up front.  Advantage electric if you ride a lot, gas if you ride little.

Depending on ones circumstances, the Honda NC750 DCT may be a wiser choice, but I don't think it provides the benefits of electric. 

[protomech]

Addressing the OP: IMO if you need absolute reliability in a single vehicle - ie your vehicle runs or you don't get paid - then you probably should avoid bikes completely, or else stick with something bulletproof. I would weigh the reliability and service of the nearby dealers more highly as anything about the bike itself. Many dealers - and in fairness, many owners - treat motorcycles as toys, so quick turnarounds on service may be lower priority.

If you have a fallback plan - another vehicle for inclement weather, carpooling with a friend, or other transit alternatives - then a bike may be suitable, and electrics are worth consideration if their capabilities and limitations align well with your commuting patterns.a

Here's my anecdotal experience.

I've owned my 2012 Zero for about 3 years. In that time, the bike has been out of service for around 4 months, including about a month after I snapped the kickstand off in a lowside. When the bike has been in service, I have commuted on every day save perhaps 20 to 30 days by pedal bike or car, typically for severe weather, cargo, or other times when a bike was logistically difficult.

I do not live near a dealer now and have never lived near a dealer. Three times the bike has required transport for service: twice for encoder issues, and once to replace the battery monolith (water ingress). Two times the bike was freighted back to Zero and once I hauled it to a dealer approximately 120 miles away. In each case the defect was repaired under warranty, and while I would have preferred swifter resolutions, ultimately I have been pleased by Zero's willingness to stand behind their bikes.

Outside of those servicing trips, the bike has needed very little maintenance at 14000 miles. The rear tire has been replaced once, both the original front and the replacement rear need to be replaced soon, and the brakes have been serviced.

My commuting distance requirements today are much shorter than when I bought the bike, but even when I was commuting 25-50+ miles per day I never ran "out" of range, and only on two instances was I concerned about fully depleting the pack on a commute. Both instances were abnormal response of the energy meter following sub-30F cold soaks on long riding days, and may have been caused by the water ingress in my pack. Since replacement 1.5 years ago, I have yet to see similar behavior during even colder days in Nashville. With the caveat that the current pack only has about 1.5 years on it, I haven't noticed a decrease in total range.

***

So my recommendation? Talk to your dealer nearby. Ask about servicing for electric bikes, and whether they have invested in tools and training from Zero. Ask about past servicing history, and make your concerns about servicing turnaround times clear. Consider your options in case the bike was unavailable for several weeks (true for any bike, not just Zero or electrics).

Personally I have been pleased with my experience using the Zero as a commuter, and if you're willing to tolerate some downtime and you have a solid nearby dealer then I would have no problems recommending the Zeros. Zero has made significant improvements in reliability since the 2012s and sounds like they're putting an increased emphasis on product quality internally, so I hope going forward that they can follow through on the low-maintenance promise of electrics.

By all means.

Smooth acceleration: the DCT box handles this very well.

Low maintenance: the NC has longer service intervals than a lot of ICE bikes, but EV's win here.

Maximum torque available through the rev range: The DCT does a good job of keeping the engine where it produces the most torque. The torque multiplication of using gears makes up for the shortfall in maximum torque compared to an electric motor.

Good for the environment: the NC has very low emissions for an ICE bike. Zero wins here of course.

Those are some of the positives for electric I can think of right now. Please note I'm not mentioning any of the negatives. Don't get me wrong, I'd love an SR but I can't afford one. I also only want to run one bike and it has to be reliable all year round in all weather conditions. Zero aren't there yet IMHO.

The NC7XX DCT is a pretty decent comparison to electrics for commuting. The internal "tank" storage is better thought-out, Honda's DCT works reasonably well (at the cost of some mechanical complexity), the servicing requirements are low and the ease of riding is high. It's also very reasonably priced, and of course can be used for longer trips with ease.

Where electrics win is ease of fueling (10s to plug in at home), theoretically lower maintenance, lower weight, responsiveness, and sound (IMO). They're also still quite novel, which can either be a positive (show up at a bike night and everyone is going to want to know WTF you're riding) or a negative (sometimes you may not want that attention).

[dkw12002]

Not needing to warm the bike up along with being able to creep along in bumper-to-bumper traffic without overheating in hot summers might be advantages of an electric motorcycle.  But for reliability, it would be hard to beat a new Honda CB300F or Ninja 300. Either would be a lot cheaper. The engines are small and water cooled, so they don't overheat and Kawasaki and Honda dealerships are everywhere. I ride my CB300F as much as my 2013 S now. Hard to say which is more fun to ride.

[MostlyBonkers]

I rode nearly 12,000 miles in the year I owned my Fazer 1000. I enjoyed every one of those miles even though most of them were commuting into London. For me, the NC is a half way house in my long term goal of going electric.  As I've said before, I would own a Zero SR in a heartbeat if I could afford one. I'd be happy to take the risk of reduced reliability bearing in mind how things have developed over the last three years.

I'm certainly not here to put anyone off going electric. I do want the world to know that there is a more affordable short to medium term option in the form of the NC though.

It upsets me when I read all the stories of customers having to wait a long time for parts and suffer poor service with dealerships. There's no excuse for it and that puts me off.

I could have bought a 2012S or DS for £6,000 last summer but I'm glad I didn't. Not going for the 2014S at £9,000 was an even tougher choice to make over the winter. I just hope that in 4-5 years time the decision to buy an electric motorcycle will be easy. I also hope there will be more to choose from in the marketplace.

I admire everyone who has already taken the plunge and are helping to build an industry that provides an alternative to the Otto cycle. I hope to contribute in my own small way, even if it is just by spreading the word.

I look forward to news of Zero re-entering the UK market. I was hoping there would be some by now. Justin is always good at keeping us updated so hopefully I've just missed a topic.

[Justin Andrews]

I've had a good 8k miles out of my 2013 in the past 8 months (bought second hand last july) and aside from a few weeks off the road due to water ingress the bike has been so far rock solid.

As for having a back up bike, personally I consider it highly sensible to have a back up vehicle (bike or car) if you decide to commute daily on a motorbike, after 25 years of riding I have never ever ever come across any motorbike that has not needed 2-3 weeks in the shop for a serious matter. Even my solid as a rock Diversion 900 needed 2 weeks when its entire brake system decided to fall apart (both front rotors warped and the rear caliper died as well) and THAT was an expensive fortnight as well.

However Zeros, while being excellent, fun bikes, are not bomb proof. I'd class them as having mid of the range reliability.   

[Zorgalouf]

I'm juste exactly like Mostlybonkers : a Zero is a bit expensive, but i would like to have one. But not having a dealer in my city is just not possible for me and is the real problem, specially when i see some little problems you have on Zeros. So i am trying to convince a electric bike and scooter shop nearby to contact Zero and see if they could/want to becomer a dealer. If they do, i may change my mind!

[MostlyBonkers]

Good luck with that Z! [emoji4]

[Burton]

 Based on my spreadsheet calculations with the 8000 mile maintenance cycle for the NC700X you would be better off buying a used zero (2013) after 4 years if you ride 13000 miles a year.

I will be selling my ninja 250 here soon, I don't ride it any more. I ride my zero year round in temperatures well below freezing stacking on at least 250 miles a week at mostly highway speeds.

If you ride a lot it just makes sense to pay for all your maintenance cost savings up front for the first couple of years. And I still think we are at least 3 or 4 years off from seeing a solid state lithium battery come to the market in a size big enough for our bikes so the range shouldn't be something which stops you if you can get from point A to B in a charge.

But don't trust me. Make a spreadsheet to calculate your own savings from one bike versus another Don't forget to account for all the time you will spend doing that maintenance and add a dollar amount per hour for both bikes.

I don't miss my gas bike at all ... and I loved that thing. I put a good 47k miles on her in a couple of years (@ 16k+ miles a year) and modified the crap out of it to make it more comfortable to ride year round.

[MostlyBonkers]

Very interesting indeed Burton. In fact, I did go through the process of analysing all the costs in a spreadsheet back in 2013. I did it again last year and no doubt I'll do it again in the future unless the costs/savings are so obviously beneficial that I don't feel the need to.

Are you in the UK or US? If in the US, which state? Location is also a big factor I feel.

As it happens, I came to the conclusion that if I bought the second hand (ex demo) Zero S that was available here in the UK before Christmas, I would break even after four years versus running my Fazer or buying a season ticket for the train. I was very tempted but with the benefit of hindsight I'm glad I didn't.

[Burton]

Are you comparing new bikes only?

My comparison was a 5k used NC700X vs a 2013 11.4 S for 10k (common price now in the states)

I am near DC, USA but gas price isn't the savings we see in the states, most of our savings is maintenance cost and the time spent doing it as I do all my own work. I refuse to pay someone $90/hr to work on my bike and have them do it wrong If I put in 90 / hr for maintenance cost over my prorated self maintenance time you would break even at 3 years not 4.

It is interesting to see your numbers were close for the demo bike but you are glad you didn't get the zero. Are there other reasons you prefer the NC700X over a zero?

Really depends how much you ride though. I put on 50 miles a day 5 days a week year round in temperatures from 0 - 110

I bought my bike knowing it would take 5 to 6 years to reap savings over buying another ninja 250 (basically till the motor needed replaced around 90k)

[MostlyBonkers]

You and I should compare notes Burton! My commute is also almost 50 miles a day. I put almost 12,000 on my Fazer in a tad under a year. Very similar circumstances!

Apologies, I don't have time to write more just now but hope to soon. How do you feel about committing yourself to one bike for four years or so? I'll write with more detail within the next few days all being well. Very interesting! [emoji4]

[Justin Andrews]

I look forward to news of Zero re-entering the UK market. I was hoping there would be some by now. Justin is always good at keeping us updated so hopefully I've just missed a topic.

Rumors are that this might happen sometime around the summer. For now keep an eye on what the Office of Low Emission Vehicles are saying, as it looks very likely that motorcycles are being added to the grant scheme, and I'd imagine that Zero will want to get their name on that list before re-entering the UK.

[Burton]

You and I should compare notes Burton!

Message me with a gmail account and I will create a copy of my spreadsheet for you to edit so you can put in your own units and compare.

It would likely be easier than asking you for all the cost variables.

Here is what I am accounting for right now but you will notice I don't account for some things like brakes / fluid since both bikes have the same cycle.
If you have more updated cost I can modify this for your cost and even in km I think. I entered $8 / gallon since you said you are in UK if I recall and my friend who was over there recently said it cost that much there.

[dkw12002]

Riding lots of miles seems to be the key factor since the per mile cost to run is much lower than anything else with electric bikes. Not many of us ride 13,000 miles a year. I do, even more than that, but I own 5 motorcycles and ride them all, so I only have 10,000 miles on my 2013 S which I have had almost 2 years now. Being able to work on your motorcycle yourself and keeping it a long time decrease the cost of ownership a lot as well. I'm not sure you would put a per hour cost on working on your own motorcycle though unless you are taking off work to do it.