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Author Topic: Trouble in paradise  (Read 5693 times)

Doug S

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Re: Trouble in paradise
« Reply #15 on: March 17, 2015, 03:00:55 AM »

So, one question to the group. I did remove the rubber cover on the front of the battery box, and was expecting to see two buttons, both of which should be depressed to reset the BMS. But my bike (a 2014 SR) has only one button and a connector (I'm assuming to connect to the BMS). I did a search and I see that where someone had said there were two buttons, they were referring to the 2015 SR. Of course the owner's manual doesn't say anything about it. And, of course, the button is recessed and it would be virtually impossible to get two human-sized hands in there to depress two buttons anyhow.

Does anybody know how this function works on the 2014? Does the single button have to be held down for some length of time? Or is there some other way of resetting the BMS?
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dkw12002

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Re: Trouble in paradise
« Reply #16 on: March 17, 2015, 04:11:42 AM »

Other than a free oil change and recalls, and a tire change (about $150 for tire plus service charge) on my 2013 Zero S, I haven't taken any motorcycles in for service in a long time. I did buy a maintenance contract on my 2011 Gixxer 1000 that cost $1500. I put 11,000 miles on the bike in about 11 months and the maintenance service transferred for an additional 2 years so that was built into the trade-in when I sold the bike, so I'm not sure what I really paid for that. I did it to have the valve adjustment, but never got to that mileage so all I really got for my $1500 was 4 oil and filter changes 3 out of 4 new spark plugs (the 4th one was going to wait for the valve check) and an air filter, chain adjustments and other minor adjustments.  I know how to all routine maintenance including valve checks which is all my bikes have needed. Plus I like to work on them. I have just under 10,000 miles on my Zero and haven't had any issues other than an occasional rogue warning light coming on, but that was before the firmware recall 5,000 miles ago or so. I did own a 2011 Zero S and the brushes went out on that bike under warranty, but that bike was very light and I pushed and coasted home and since my dealer is only 4 miles from my home, he picked up the broken bike from my home. Rather than deal with putting another brushed motor in the bike, I traded it in, after a year or so.

It's probably hard to figure maintenance costs on a Zero, but I suspect the maintenance costs after 2 years will be higher than most ICE bikes, but that's just a guess. If you have to replace chargers, motors, battery cells, it's going to be many hundreds of dollars and significant down time unless you can diagnose and work on the bike yourself. Feast or famine, I suppose. There is one other issue to consider. That Ninja 300 I mentioned has a very good resale value. I don't think the resale value on Zeros is very good, so that's perhaps a negative. Like you say, when they work they are fantastic, but when they don't it's a downer. I will probably just ride mine until it breaks or until I want to trade in for another Zero or some other motorcycle. Personally, I doubt I would put $1000 into fixing my broken Zero once it's out of warranty in a couple months. I'd just trade it for whatever I could get, be done with it and hop on another bike. I have always thought of Zeros as expensive toys that will cost lots of money to run. 

OOps. Just remembered I did have one minor issue on my Zero. A solenoid went out so some of the lights didn't work. The dealer fixed that promptly by picking up the bike and returning it to me, which was very easy for me and why I forget I even had the problem.

« Last Edit: March 17, 2015, 04:15:43 AM by dkw12002 »
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teddillard

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Re: Trouble in paradise
« Reply #17 on: March 17, 2015, 04:45:04 AM »

Maybe this is naive, but have you tried contacting Zero directly?  There's a contact form on their site, with a phone number.
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Doug S

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Re: Trouble in paradise
« Reply #18 on: March 17, 2015, 06:07:53 AM »

Maybe this is naive, but have you tried contacting Zero directly?  There's a contact form on their site, with a phone number.

I was going to do that, but when I got home from work this evening, the bike is fine. We had a nice hot day today, and I'm guessing whatever it was got dried out thoroughly.

No more water baths for the bike! Waterless car washes only from now on. Still not an encouraging sign that the bike isn't water resistant enough to wash it with a hose.
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Burton

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Re: Trouble in paradise
« Reply #19 on: March 17, 2015, 06:17:19 AM »

I have never used a hose on my bikes. Only water in a bucket or from a spray bottle set to mist. Same for my zero.

For extreme grime (with ICE typically)

I start with WD40 and a tooth brush
Then hit it with a oil based degreaser
Then hit it with a water based degreaser
Then hit it with soapy water
Then hit it with water.

For the zero I simply get a brush / sponge and some soapy water and a squirt bottle. Not taking any chances lol
That said I have had this bike in some serious down pours at 75mph and haven't had an issue.
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dkw12002

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Re: Trouble in paradise
« Reply #20 on: March 17, 2015, 06:39:35 AM »

I talked about some rogue warning lights. Those occurred after I got caught in a driving rain. The bike never stopped, but it was flashing red and green lights for over a day even with a 24 hour fan blowing on the bike, until I took it on the highway and got some good air flow up under the seat. I don't use a car wash or even a garden hose other than on the wheels and up under the fenders. Several people have reported issues from moisture.
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Justin Andrews

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Re: Trouble in paradise
« Reply #21 on: March 17, 2015, 03:41:21 PM »

The Red and Green flashing lights are a frame and/or BMS isolation error.
The BMS isolation error can also be checked in the BMS lights as well, which will flash its own error code (check your manual for the code and if you bike reports this error)
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Burton

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Re: Trouble in paradise
« Reply #22 on: March 17, 2015, 06:20:53 PM »

The Red and Green flashing lights are a frame and/or BMS isolation error.
The BMS isolation error can also be checked in the BMS lights as well, which will flash its own error code (check your manual for the code and if you bike reports this error)
I have found water collecting on top of the 35 pin connector on the controller causes this problem as well.

Been meaning to isolate this part of the bike to prevent this behavior.
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kensiko

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Re: Trouble in paradise
« Reply #23 on: March 17, 2015, 06:42:44 PM »

Maybe this is naive, but have you tried contacting Zero directly?  There's a contact form on their site, with a phone number.

I was going to do that, but when I got home from work this evening, the bike is fine. We had a nice hot day today, and I'm guessing whatever it was got dried out thoroughly.

No more water baths for the bike! Waterless car washes only from now on. Still not an encouraging sign that the bike isn't water resistant enough to wash it with a hose.

Well I always felt insecure using pressured water on mine. I drove it a few times in heavy rain and didn't have any issue. I assume the rain is not getting in the sensitive parts of the bike, but the pressured water does.

I bought a local product here called Sanszo (http://sanszo.com/en/home) and it does a great job, you probably have something similar in US. It does take more time than just using a hose, but this product wax at the same time so it last longer.
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Zero S 11.4 2013
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Gone -> Nissan Leaf 2014 SV rented (transfer)
Gone -> Prius 2010 bought at 180000 km.

Justin Andrews

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Re: Trouble in paradise
« Reply #24 on: March 17, 2015, 06:55:47 PM »

The Red and Green flashing lights are a frame and/or BMS isolation error.
The BMS isolation error can also be checked in the BMS lights as well, which will flash its own error code (check your manual for the code and if you bike reports this error)
I have found water collecting on top of the 35 pin connector on the controller causes this problem as well.

Been meaning to isolate this part of the bike to prevent this behavior.

Yeah, I don't like the look of those "filler" pins on the harness side of the connector myself. I'm fairly certain (looking at your wiring diagram) that the pre-charge current goes in through this connecter as well, so all sort of non-starting badness can happen if this connector gets a bit too damp.
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Zero 2015 SR (+PT);
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teddillard

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Re: Trouble in paradise
« Reply #25 on: March 17, 2015, 07:56:12 PM »

lol I missed the part about you using a hose on it.  You're kidding right?   ;D 

I clean my electric bike with this, courtesy of my Amsoil sponsor.  Works the balls. 
http://www.amsoil.com/shop/by-product/other-products/cleaners-and-protectants/miracle-wash-waterless-wash-and-wax-spray/

Call me crazy, but intentionally dousing a hundred volts or so with water doesn't make much sense to me...  nor does consternation when it starts acting wonky.  If it were my bike I'd have every connector and boot apart at this point, cleaned, dried and silicon waterproofed.  As any bike gets older, the boots and insulation degrades and gets dirty, which compromises both their waterproof-ness and their insulation ability.

« Last Edit: March 17, 2015, 08:05:12 PM by teddillard »
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Doug S

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Re: Trouble in paradise
« Reply #26 on: March 17, 2015, 08:25:28 PM »

lol I missed the part about you using a hose on it.  You're kidding right?   ;D 

No I'm not kidding. How many people wash their vehicles that way every day? It's true most vehicles don't have 100V electrical systems, but they sure do have electrical systems, and they survive quite well. And come on, if the bike can't stand up to gentle hose washing, how's it supposed to survive being ridden in the rain?

Ironically, because CA has been having such water problems, a while back I got some of the waterless car wash stuff and have been using it for most of the life of the bike. It's more expensive, but I love it and intend to continue using it. It's only because I ran out recently and haven't received my new bottle yet that I hose-washed it last Sunday.
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Richard230

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Re: Trouble in paradise
« Reply #27 on: March 17, 2015, 08:53:48 PM »

I washed my 2014 Zero this weekend using a light spray from my garden hose, along with some auto wash soap solution.  I tried to be careful with the spray, but I apparently managed to get it somewhere into the works that didn't appreciate it. When I started up my bike to ride it around to help dry it off (after first drying with an electric air-blower), I noticed that my "custom" programming had reverted to the original factory custom programming.  When I arrived back home, I got my "smart" phone and used the Zero app to reprogram it back to what I wanted.  Then I parked the bike, turned it off and plugged it in.  Immediately all of the LCD symbols on the screen started flashing.  So I turned it back on and they still kept flashing.  So I turned the ignition off and it kept on flashing - before finally stopping and reverting to the normal charging routine.  Then I recalled that is what the bike does when you reprogram it and shut off the ignition too soon.  Anyway everything is back to normal.  But I do think I will stick to waterless car wash spray (which I have lots of) from now on.

It is a good thing that it never rains in California.  Riding in the rain would likely be a real shock to my Zero.   ::)
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teddillard

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Re: Trouble in paradise
« Reply #28 on: March 17, 2015, 09:31:05 PM »

... How many people wash their vehicles that way every day?

Well, I sure can't argue with that logic.   ::)
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Electric Terry

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Re: Trouble in paradise
« Reply #29 on: March 17, 2015, 10:10:11 PM »

Rain and getting wet is one thing, but intentionally spraying water under pressure in areas that might have O-rings or dielectric grease seals that you could wash away under pressure just sounds like it's asking for trouble.  But I don't know, there's always something better to do in my day it seems than to wash my bike.  In almost 3 years of owning my Zero I've never washed it once.  But because it doesn't have oil flying around, it doesn't really ever get dirty enough that I want to waste water/time washing it.  I'd rather spend that time riding it somewhere ;)

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