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[Richard230]

Nice to see a double controller bike out there soon, I'm jealous, should be wicked fast which are you going to piggyback?

Will go to dual size fours. Possobly an atf cooled motor aswell. 880 phase amps and ~90hp s pretty awesome.

Wouldn't a motor filled with oil run hotter and be less efficient if it was pushing that oil around?  Plus, oil is not a very efficient cooling fluid. I would think that a motor like the Z-force type would be much better cooled if it could be surrounded by a water jacket with the anti-freeze/water mixture cooled by a normal radiator. (You probably wouldn't need a fan, but would need a small electric motor to circulate the coolant.)

[Justin Andrews]

I rather have nothing conductive around the motors, they dislike water enough as it... 

[RNM]

Wouldn't a motor filled with oil run hotter and be less efficient if it was pushing that oil around?  Plus, oil is not a very efficient cooling fluid. I would think that a motor like the Z-force type would be much better cooled if it could be surrounded by a water jacket with the anti-freeze/water mixture cooled by a normal radiator. (You probably wouldn't need a fan, but would need a small electric motor to circulate the coolant.)

Run hotter, no, the opposite.
Less efficient, yes, by a very small margin.

Internal oil cooling in present in some of the most power dense motors, like Mission and Rimac motors.
Less efficiency would come from oil friction inside the motor, which only depends on the "smoothness" of the rotor.
Example of smooth:
http://remyinc.com/docs/HVH410R2.pdf

Not smooth:
http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/es/Nov1997/09/B_8POL1.JPG

Why internal oil cooling instead of water jacket? Shorter thermal path and the possibility to effectively cool the rotor.

PS- Rimac motors use both, internal oil cooling AND water jacket

[Farfle]

The zero motor is not limited by stator heat, its temp cutoff is limited by rotor heat (like a 60C deltaT stator to rotor iirc) . And that simply filling the motor slightly less than halfway with ATF almost doubled the continuous power output.

[Burton]

The zero motor is not limited by stator heat, its temp cutoff is limited by rotor heat (like a 60C deltaT stator to rotor iirc) . And that simply filling the motor slightly less than halfway with ATF almost doubled the continuous power output.

Do you have numbers to compare milling out the sides of the motor to air cool it ? I would love to see a comparison of the two.

[Farfle]

The zero motor is not limited by stator heat, its temp cutoff is limited by rotor heat (like a 60C deltaT stator to rotor iirc) . And that simply filling the motor slightly less than halfway with ATF almost doubled the continuous power output.

Do you have numbers to compare milling out the sides of the motor to air cool it ? I would love to see a comparison of the two.

Sadly no. All I have is word of mouth from probably the most reputable person in the subject. And he didnt go over air cooling. It cant hurt though.

[RNM]

Sadly no. All I have is word of mouth from probably the most reputable person in the subject. And he didnt go over air cooling. It cant hurt though.

LFP using this?
http://www.redlineoil.com/product.aspx?pid=137&pcid=9

[Cortezdtv]

The zero motor is not limited by stator heat, its temp cutoff is limited by rotor heat (like a 60C deltaT stator to rotor iirc) . And that simply filling the motor slightly less than halfway with ATF almost doubled the continuous power output.

Do you have numbers to compare milling out the sides of the motor to air cool it ? I would love to see a comparison of the two.

Sadly no. All I have is word of mouth from probably the most reputable person in the subject. And he didnt go over air cooling. It cant hurt though.

X2 heard this before
atf for the win


I'm just unsure about having a box of oil right in front of my rear wheel; I'd rather have 7500-8000 rpms..... You know what I speak of...

[RNM]

I'm just unsure about having a box of oil right in front of my rear wheel; I'd rather have 7500-8000 rpms..... You know what I speak of...

"Box of oil" is the standard of millions of motorcycles, we'll manage... [emoji6]

8000rpm on Zero's motor is doable with a bit of fibre glass or kevlar to hold the magnets. (carbon fiber is conductive, not good for that...)

[CrashCash]

a monolith opening

Whee! I am looking forward to that. Can you explain quickly what the monolith even is?

I saw a bunch of apes clustered around mine, touching it and humming. Oh wait, those were the dealer service techs.

[Justin Andrews]

The Monolith is the nickname for the battery pack, probably because it's a big black rectangle.

Its where the un-isolated HV lives, all the HV lines before the contactor are in the monolith, so the chances of accidentally vapourising a tool/battery/yourself become a possibility.

[CrashCash]

OK, I was asking because my power tank install instructions mentioned removing the fuse from the monolith, which is this small silver box located just forward of the seat. It's a separate unit from the controller or any batteries. I was wondering what the heck that was.

(And I just noticed in said instructions that it's indeed black in the photo, instead of silver.)

[m0t0-ryder]

The monolith is simply a housing that holds "X" number of individual modules (bricks).
Your Power Tank is a single 116VDC ZF 2.8 battery brick in it's own housing with it's own BMS card. When installed the interconnect cables add this 5'th module (when added to the ZF12.5) in parallel with the monolith battery pack.
The monolith contains 3 or 4 of these individual battery "bricks" depending on whether it's a ZF9.4 or ZF12.5.
These individual modules are connected in parallel to get the higher Power rating while retaining the same voltage.
Note that on 2014 models the monoliths were ZF8.5 and ZF11.4.
Slight improvement in power density for 2015 resulted in the higher rating.

[CrashCash]

Hm. That sounds like the large black box at the front, but then this refers to a different small silver box, just aft of the power tank battery:

Remove the low power B+ fuse from the monolith. It is located on the left side of the motorcycle underneath the back end of the plastic tank at front of seat.

[m0t0-ryder]

The only "silver box" that I can think of on the Zero is the DC-DC Converter.
(not including the larger Sevcon Controller).

Neither the DC-DC Converter nor the (black) MBB have fuses built into them.
There is a box/tower attached to the top of the Monolith that we referred to as the "doghouse" that contains the contactor and other support components. IIRC this was black also.

Unfortunately all of my notes, documents and support info stayed on the laptop that was owned by and returned to Zero.