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[dc5dd]

Just out of curiosity is it a straight swap from the 2015 12.5kWh battery to the 2014 11.4kWh battery?  Is there programing and firmware updates involved.  Is it possible?  Is the hardware different?  Thanks

[aaronzeromoto]

Sorry.  It is not a straight swap.  The connection to the monolith changed in 2015 for numerous reasons.  So all the above is required. 

It is technically possible, and something we will have available for warranty support if needed, but not something that we thought would be cost-effective to be interesting to owners.  But I am guessing I might get some strong feedback on this.  So happy to hear everyone's thoughts.

Regards,
aaronzeromoto

[dc5dd]

...Uh this makes me wish my battery becomes warranty work...and then maybe not

[Francois]

it will be available for the 2013 to?
the end off the warranty is nearly soon (april 2015) for me

[Electric Terry]

In college I had a 1984 300ZX I loved.  I wanted it faster though.  I spent a lot of time trying to get shops to quote me prices on adding a turbo charger.  They kept telling me over and over, just sell the car and get the turbo version which already existed.  Somehow at age 18 this did not make sense to me.  I didn't want to get rid of my car, I just wanted it to have the turbo!  How dare they suggest I get rid of my ____! (I think it had a name but I cant remember)  Although a year later I did sell the car and get the turbo one, and instantly it made sense this was the right thing to do all along.

about 10 years ago my mom had a long commute and was complaining about gas prices.  My Dad and I bought her a 2001 VW TDI that got 50 mpg.  She said she loved her car and didn't want the new one.  It took a lot of effort, but as soon as she finally drove the VW for the first time, she said she liked it better and we sold her old one.

I could tell story after story like this.  There is a personal attachment we all form with our vehicles.  It's almost like a relationship.  The thought of depending on something new and unknown becomes something feared because it is unproven and we are conditioned to form a bond with something that treats us well despite how irrational the logic might be.

My point is, for all of you wishing to get more range by swapping battery packs, this would likely cost 2-3 times more than the difference than if you just sell your 2014 Zero and buy a 2015 with the bigger battery.  Although I totally understand.  Your current bike is amazing to you and you don't want a new bike, you just want to make yours a little bit better if possible.   

The battery is perhaps the single most costly item on the bike.  Even if you bought a new one, what do you plan to do with the old one?  Even being the huge big time hacker I am, I saw this thread and thought to myself that it sounded somewhat illogical to consider vs just upgrading the whole bike.  The main reason as Aaron above mentioned is the cost.

The best way to "break out" of the current thinking, and see the other options is go to your local dealer and test ride the 2015 Zero for a good long test ride.  That will instantly break the psychological barrier you have trying to improve your current bike, and you will start thinking about upgrading to a new bike when the time is right and you feel you need the additional range.  It's like you are taking the 2015 Zero on it's first "date".  If the "date" goes well you can't help but think about it.  However, if the bike you are currently "dating" is taking good care of you, you are happy and don't have any desire to think about "dating" any other "bikes".   It's a good thing we think this way.  If we didn't, our world would be a mess.

Anyway, no matter what bike you have, bottom line is:  Go test ride the 2015 Zero SR!  I can guarantee after your first "date" you will want another.

[Doug S]

Terry, I have a 2014 SR. When the battery starts to go south (hopefully ten years from now or more), I'll probably just sell it used and get a new whatever is available then. But maybe not. Maybe it will be worth replacing the battery pack and keeping it on the road. Wouldn't it be nice to know the latest and greatest battery pack available would work, be affordable, and increase my range and performance?

[Electric Terry]

Terry, I have a 2014 SR. When the battery starts to go south (hopefully ten years from now or more), I'll probably just sell it used and get a new whatever is available then. But maybe not. Maybe it will be worth replacing the battery pack and keeping it on the road. Wouldn't it be nice to know the latest and greatest battery pack available would work, be affordable, and increase my range and performance?

Doug, I admire your long term investment strategy.  Your bike might pay for itself 2 times over in what you save in gas and maintenance on a gas vehicle if you ride it often.

So what you are saying is range is your only thing you are concerned about?  What if the brakes get better? (2015 has ABS!), what if the bike gets faster eventually (you bought an SR, surely you are a spirited rider, and we always want more), What if the suspension gets better? (The 2015 has Showa suspension!) What if one day in the future the bike charges quicker, or offers more storage, or changes styling, or anything?  Would you still just want the battery?

Would you want to take a 2010 Zero and try to put a 2020 battery in it?  If not, than you must like the changes that happened in the last 4 years to the rest of the bike.  So what makes you think you would want to put a 2024 battery in a 2014 Zero?  My guess is in 2024 the battery in your Zero will still be fine for what the vehicle is worth.  Remember you will have probably paid for it with your petroleum savings many years before.  At that point wouldn't you just sell it and get another Zero?

Let's say you have a 2005 Honda Civic.  Are you going to try to get Honda to transplant a 2015 motor into your car?  Of course not, you just sell the old car and get a new one.  Someone out there will appreciate the cost and usefulness of the 2005 Civic just as it is, just like someone will appreciate the price and performance of 2014 Zero SR in 2024 just as it is.

Last question Doug.  The first vehicle you ever bought, did you keep it 10+ years?  How about the second?

See my point?   

Think about everything you're saving by not buying gas and doing oil changes, filters, fluids, tune ups etc, and when you feel you want a little more, whenever that might be, buy the newest Zero and feel comfortable you got your moneys worth out of your old one (can't ever say that out of a gas vehicle) and move on, knowing you'll do the same thing in a couple years.

[dc5dd]

Terry, I have a 2014 SR. When the battery starts to go south (hopefully ten years from now or more), I'll probably just sell it used and get a new whatever is available then. But maybe not. Maybe it will be worth replacing the battery pack and keeping it on the road. Wouldn't it be nice to know the latest and greatest battery pack available would work, be affordable, and increase my range and performance?

Terry this is what my thought on the matter but I believe it is mostly warranty work.  And they are correct in 10 to 15 years you would just buy a new bike.  But i think it also  is whatever works for you and my main concern in this type of situation is cost. 

[CrashCash]

> There is a personal attachment we all form with our vehicles

Hm. I guess I'm different. I punted that SV-650 POS as fast as I could. I had it for 5 years but I only put 15K miles on it. My '02 SV-650 was nice, but they sure as hell nerfed the engine in the '08.

I did like my RZ-350 because it was a noisy stinkwheel, and I fondly remember my CB450SC because it was the first, but the SR beats 'em both hands down.

Heck, I think the CB had a shorter range, and it certainly struggled to top 85 for more than a minute before it overheated, and the brakes, despite being disc, were like wooden blocks.

Personally, I'm yelling "GO ELON MUSK!" and hoping his battery gigafactory works out, and the bike I buy in 2025 will be a lot cheaper.

[Doug S]

Last question Doug.  The first vehicle you ever bought, did you keep it 10+ years?  How about the second?

I don't think I've kept any vehicle as long as ten years, but I haven't kept any vehicle (car or motorcycle) fewer than five either. I'm not one of those people that thinks it's worth upgrading to get the new paint job. Better brakes? The 2015 already has better brakes. Better suspension? Ditto. But I bought my 2014 because it's good enough for me to use now. Why is that going to change in ten years?

I don't know what actual decision I'm going to make in ten years, assuming my current ride makes it that long. But that's my point! If there's no option, I don't have a decision to make, now do I?

[Electric Terry]

Great info Doug!

I tend to upgrade every 3-4 myself.  But as far as the battery on the Zero's, mine is 3 years old now with some serious use and abuse! And I have less than a 1% measurable capacity degradation.  And that's 70,000+ miles!!!  I'm extremely confident in 5 years, your bike will go the same number of miles on a charge it does now.  Just take care of it.  Don't leave it over the winter parked at 0%, or sitting in the 120 degree sun in Phoenix AZ at a full charge for weeks on end and you should be fine. 

I support Zero's official opinion to leave the bike plugged in at all times.  It doesn't make a huge difference.  But if you know you won't be riding it for a while, my personal opinion is to leave it somewhere between 50% and 80% state of charge while sitting for extended periods.  And then charge it to full a few days before you want to start riding again (or the night before) But we are counting hairs at that point.  And I have to say again that is just my opinion, and not Zero's official recommendation.  If you have a 2010 or 2011 Zero, leave it plugged in always when not riding.  The BMS consumes more power than the 2012 and up bikes do, which is almost nothing.

With the bikes stabilizing resale value since 2013, I think there is an argument however to upgrade every 2-3 years and show a net loss of "zero" (pardon the pun).   If you add up what you save in gas and maintenance, with a 2-3 year depreciation I think it's about break even, if you ride the bike almost every day, vs what you saved over that time if you were to ride a gas bike.

I spent a lot of money on extra chargers and I paid for the entire motorcycle and the chargers in 2 1/2 years vs if I'd been riding my YZF-R1 Yamaha.  You can't beat that!  And my bike still has incredible resale value that would just be icing on the cake, although I'm not going to sell it.  It has a home in a museum when I hit 100k miles.  That's my target for it.

[Cortezdtv]

Terry no offense but you can't compare your bike to others; when you cycle your battery's so many times they become "stronger" than ones that have  been cycles 50% less than yours

Not saying the batteries sent built to last but batteries that sent used typically have issues and batteries that are used will have less issues...

My analogy can be related to cars as well.  Typically you are better of buying the 50 year old car that has 150,xxx vs the car that's 50 years old and has only 50,xxx yes to most the one with less miles is worth more, but from every car I have ever had, the one that was driven more consistently wanted to continue where as the one that sat, well wanted to sit


This is very very true of car audio batteries, when you first buy batteries you need to cycle them as much as Possiable, when you get them they will be "stiff" and gain a little compasitance when they are cycled a few times

[Cortezdtv]

Great info Doug!


I support Zero's official opinion to leave the bike plugged in at all times.  It doesn't make a huge difference.  But if you know you won't be riding it for a while, my personal opinion is to leave it somewhere between 50% and 80% state of charge while sitting for extended periods.  And then charge it to full a few days before you want to start riding again (or the night before) But we are counting hairs at that point.  And I have to say again that is just my opinion, and not Zero's official recommendation.  If you have a 2010 or 2011 Zero, leave it plugged in always when not riding.  The BMS consumes more power than the 2012 and up bikes do, which is almost nothing.

I can't agree with this statement more about the 50 to 80%