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[Richard230]

It looks like Kevin Cameron, the Cycle World magazine tech guy, is starting a series of electric motorcycle power articles.  Here is the first installment:  http://www.cycleworld.com/2014/12/29/the-electric-motorcycle-part-1-of-5-basics-of-electric-vehicle-power-systems/

[MotoRyder]

I've read many articles from Kevin Cameron and am intrigued by his desire to delve into electric propulsion for motorcycles.

One interesting comment that I've heard from people, and that Kevin Cameron states as well is,

Necessary Realism
Electric vehicle advocates proudly tell us their machines emit zero pollution. That is true only at the point of use, as 88 percent of our electricity still comes from sources that emit plenty of pollutants into the environment.

Well, here in the Greater-Seattle area, the electric utility company, Seattle City Light, actually provides about 93.5% of all the electrical power it supplies from renewable sources (hydroelectric power, and wind), so locally we are able to repudiate those arguments; http://www.seattle.gov/light/FuelMix/.

=>>  Just wondering how riders of electric motorcycles and drivers of electric cars deal with this criticism of electrical power generation ??

[Doug S]

Electric vehicle advocates proudly tell us their machines emit zero pollution. That is true only at the point of use, as 88 percent of our electricity still comes from sources that emit plenty of pollutants into the environment.

What an annoying and persistent red herring that is. If we're going to talk about point-of-use vs. entire supply chain, let's talk about the pollution created by refining gasoline from crude oil, shall we? It's funny how that never seems to enter the nay-sayers' arguments.

The fact that electricity sometimes comes from "dirty" sources doesn't make it a dirty power source. Electricity can be generated from hydroelectric, wind, solar, tidal, geothermal, nuclear, or several other non-pollution-generating, non-carbon dioxide-producing sources. You will NEVER be able to say that about gasoline, diesel or natural gas. How we generate electrical power is strictly up to us -- we can replace "dirty" sources with "clean" sources at will. All we need is the will. Some say fusion power is just around the corner, providing an essentially unlimited source of electrical power extremely cheaply, at which point the EV will realize its full potential and eliminate all other technologies for personal transportation.

It's not a question of if, it's just a matter of when.

[ultrarnr]

Just wondering how riders of electric motorcycles and drivers of electric cars deal with this criticism of electrical power generation ??

Very simple: I tell them I don't give a s*.*.  Seriously. No offense to anyone here but this isn't my soap box at all. I ride a Zero SR because I like the way that electric motor delivers power. And that is what I talk to people about. I talk about how my SR and my 650 V-Strom have similar HP and weight but my SR has 2 1/2 times the torque and how my SR will just run away from my V-Strom. I talk about how if range and charging times are no problem I ride my SR and if they are an issue I ride my V-Strom. I talk about always riding a motorcycle instead of driving my 98 Ford Ranger.

How you sell electric motorcycles is different than how you sell electric cars. The market for motorcycles in the US is pretty tiny compared to the market for cars. Environmental concerns may be enough to sell electric cars but it  doesn't work for motorcycles. A lot of electric motorcycles are used for commuting. The percentage of all motorcyclist who commute on their bikes is pretty small. Then throw in the fact of how many of that already tiny segment that commute on their motorcycles who are in to environmental concerns and you are not talking about enough people to ever keep Zero, Brammo in business.

If you look at every engine configuration available for an ICE bike you will find people who love every one of them and you will find people who don't. A V-Twin is different than an in-line four and there are people who love a big V-twin but will never consider an in-line four cyclinder. I think you can add electric into that mix. Some people like how an electric motor delivers power and there are people who won't.

But the bottom line here is it is all about POWER DELIVERY!!!!!  It is about superior performance, it is about Lightening beating a Ducati at Pikes Peak. There are far more people out there who are willing to buy an electric motorcycle because of how that electric motor delivers power than there are people who will buy an electric motorcycle because of environmental concerns.

And that is my soap box. Fire away.

[CrashCash]

Golf clap for ultrarnr! Well said, sir.

Man... If I had a buck for every person that's told me (or obviously refrained from telling me) how stupid I am for spending $20K on an electric bike, I could buy a second one.

[MichaelJohn]

Just wondering how riders of electric motorcycles and drivers of electric cars deal with this criticism of electrical power generation ??

Very simple: I tell them I don't give a s*.*.

But the bottom line here is it is all about POWER DELIVERY!!!!!  It is about superior performance, it is about Lightening beating a Ducati at Pikes Peak. There are far more people out there who are willing to buy an electric motorcycle because of how that electric motor delivers power than there are people who will buy an electric motorcycle because of environmental concerns.

And that is my soap box. Fire away.

Spot on. I really love the fact that my SR is is Eco-friendly but I bought it because it nearly threw me off the bike when I cracked it full open on my test ride. At that moment saving the planet was the last thing on my mind.

[benswing]

It takes 4-6 kWh of electricity to refine 1 gallon of gas.  That gets us about 40-60 miles, and that's just comparing the refining process. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[AustinSZF8.5]

Very simple: I tell them I don't give a s*.*.

Indeed, and in addition to all that, I like it because it's quiet, smooth, more convenient, and doesn't leave my clothes smelling of fuel-rich exhaust even after I've been off the bike for hours. Oh yeah, and it's WAY cheaper to run and maintain than ICE bikes. I like that it doesn't pollute from the tailpipe, but that's way down the list of reasons why I bought it.

[Doug S]

All of the above is true for me too, but I also tell people that it feels good to give an ex-con a second chance. My bike spent a little time in prison, charged with battery.

Sorry.

[Richard230]

I like EV tech because you can start up, ride a short distance, stop the bike and do it again all day long.  If you do that with an IC motorcycle, you would end up with a crankcase of full acids, moisture, and other nasty polluting stuff that is really bad for the engine parts and that someone will have to get rid of (somehow) when the crankcase oil is recycled.  It takes at least 10 miles of riding an IC bike before the oil drys out from condensation developed in the crankcase, a lot longer when riding in cold weather. This is a concern to me as I mostly use my Zero to take short trips around town so that I don't have to drive my car.

[bigd]

 What ultrarnr said is the best way to sell them +100. I also agree with AustinSZF8.5 "Oh yeah, and it's WAY cheaper to run" . At 1st, what caught my attention about the EV car was how little it cost to drive. Then came the shocking sticker price for what you get (it was a Tesla Roadster) and sadly I moved on. Then along came the zero and the lower cost compared to EV car. Combined with my love to ride bikes I was immediately drawn back into the EV world. Then I had the privilege of talking to Benswing about Zero (he should be  a salesman for zero) the attraction grew even more. I have been doing the calculations over and over and determined it cost me 23 cents a mile on my VTX for gas, a zero would "only" cost me 3 cents in electricity.  I will note that this does not take into consideration the maintenance cost. I have no other conclusion than I need to get one. I was now able to justify the rather large upfront cost and ready to make the purchase. However, as in life, I came across another sticking point. I am spending 40grand a year on collage for an offspring, and this really depletes the budget at the moment as I am just living on a middle class budget. That said I only had one question left - does he really need a degree ? I will just have to wait and dream of the day I will be a Zero owner. Sorry for the reflecting but I am bored and since I don't have a zero and wife's gone, this is the next best option.

[AustinSZF8.5]

Then I had the privilege of talking to Benswing about Zero (he should be  a salesman for zero) the attraction grew even more.

I like to think that we're all salesmen for Zero.    Our commission is that they continue to make money and build better bikes that we can buy down the road.

[Richard230]

Here is part two of the article:  http://www.cycleworld.com/2014/12/30/the-electric-motorcycle-part-2-of-5-electric-vehicle-power-supplies/

and part three:  http://www.cycleworld.com/2014/12/31/the-electric-motorcycle-part-3-of-5-exploring-electric-motor-types/

As a technical EV "layman" I find these articles very interesting and informative.  Maybe not equal to a college electrical power science course, but they are pretty understandable to even a Luddite like me.     And the price is right.   

[Richard230]

Part 4.  Now we are getting down to the nitty gritty.  Everyone's favorite subject.  Charging electric motorcycle batteries: 

http://www.cycleworld.com/2015/01/01/the-electric-motorcycle-part-4-of-5-why-are-battery-charging-systems-so-complicated/

[Richard230]

And finally, Part 5 of the series in which Mr. Cameron discusses Li battery technology and a little about its potential future: 

http://www.cycleworld.com/2015/01/02/the-electric-motorcycle-part-5-of-5-battery-development-and-manufacturing-plus-problems-and-solutions/