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[teddillard]

Got a story up with a couple of interviews with Walker on InsideEVs: http://insideevs.com/dealernews-talks-zero-ceo-richard-walker/

I hadn't seen the video interview before.  He seems like a very measured, reasonable guy with a well thought-out plan. 

[Richard230]

That comment about dealers needing to believe in electric motorcycles can be a real sticking point when signing up new dealers and when something electrical goes wrong that they need to repair or sort out.  Some dealers just want to make a quick buck selling EV's but when a customer comes in with a problem they may not have the technical skills, education, experience, or interest to spend the time to deal with it.  These dealers will just throw up their hands, drop the line and go back to the comfort of selling exclusively Japanese-brand IC motorcycles.   

I kind of think that is why we are not seeing any Japanese brand electric motorcycles on the market.  They are just afraid of change.   

[ultrarnr]

But even for dealers who do believe in electric motorcycles it is not enough. Zero has been an extremely difficult company to do business with in the past. Just getting someone to answer the phone or respond to a voice mail or an email has been a huge challenge for my dealer. I hope some of those problems have been resolved. But when I had the problems with my Power Tank it took multiple calls and emails over many days to in order to get in contact with someone at Zero each time. It really shouldn't be that hard.  I don't think its fair to think that a dealer who is new to selling electric motorcycles should suddenly become an expert on them overnight. There is something to be said about a manufacturer going out and educating their dealers and that has never happened. When Zero finally did send a tech rep to my dealer to fix the PT problem it went extremely well. My dealer had nothing but extremely positive comments about the interaction. But all of the effort that was required to get that problem fixed caused my dealer to seriously question selling Zeros.  And the really sad part of all of this is that there is so much frustration that could have been prevented if the Zero reps my dealer had to go through would have had the ability to answer the phone or respond to an email.

[Richard230]

When my power tank wouldn't work, my dealer was able to contact Zero immediately and they walked the shop's technician through a number of troubleshooting ideas.  When the problem couldn't be solved over the phone, they determined that the power tank module was likely defective and a week later my dealer made an appointment for me to bring my bike back to the shop.  A Zero technician was waiting for me at 9am with a new power tank module, he installed it, found another fault, upgraded the bike's programming and synchronized the encoder and sent me on my way within two hours.  The bike has run perfectly ever since.   

So far I haven't run into any problems with Zero's after-sales service and if my dealer has, they haven't mentioned it to me.  However, ordering and delivering miscellaneous parts within a reasonable time is another issue, entirely.

[CrashCash]

Yeah, but what do you do when you're in Florida, far from Santa Cruz? I certainly don't expect Zero to fly a tech out every time I have a problem the dealer can't solve.

[Richard230]

Yeah, but what do you do when you're in Florida, far from Santa Cruz? I certainly don't expect Zero to fly a tech out every time I have a problem the dealer can't solve.

That is a real problem that Zero needs to address before EV sales are adversely affected through "word of mouth".  It likely isn't any better for EU countries and Australia. 

I wonder when Zero plans to invade Japan?  That would be interesting market.  Kind of "in your face" to the major Japanese brands.   

[ultrarnr]

Sometimes I don't think there is any other option though. Both CrashCash and myself are a long way from Santa Cruz California.

Richard230, you and I had similar problems with our Zero's. But the experience your dealer had with Zero to get it fixed was vastly different than the experience that mine had. And yes it helps that you live close to Zero. But Zero only sent a tech rep after my dealer refused to continue working on the bike. And yes I agree completely with my dealers decision. The data logs don't tell them everything and after the tech rep got there it turned out that there was no way Zero could have found the problem in the data logs. There is no question that sending a tech rep to Florida or North Carolina is not cheap. But you also have to look at the price of not doing it. In my case if Zero had not sent a tech rep to my dealer they would not be carrying the brand today. How do you put a price on losing a dealership? The kind of problems most of us have with our Zeros are not the kind of problems a dealer will see on other brands. So it makes it tougher for them to solve. In some cases these problems are also new to Zero. And Zero can only do so much with the detailed logs the dealer sends them. In my case those logs didn't help. I think the cost of sending out tech reps is part of the cost of being a new start-up. As time goes on and dealers become more comfortable and experienced with electric motorcycles the ability for a dealer to troubleshoot a problem will become better and the need to send out tech reps will be reduced. But Zero needs to support all dealers like they supported Richard230's dealer regardless of how far they are away from Santa Cruz.

[Richard230]

I would also like to point out that every major vehicle brand has roving technical specialists that will visit a dealer to solve warranty and mechanical problems that the dealers can not solve themselves.  I have heard that BMW has several of these factory representatives that are available to assist dealers with unusual issues that can not be otherwise resolved.  I think everyone knows that the auto manufacturers all do the same.  Obviously Zero needs at least one experienced engineer that is available to fly around the country to solve problems with their bikes that can not be resolved by the local dealer.  That would be a positive for everyone concerned, not only for the customer but especially the techs that work on the bike.  They could learn a lot by having this type of assistance when needed.

[DynoMutt]

Those are very expensive people to have constantly flying around not doing mechanical work (the transport time is not free, and they're not doing what they do best during that time)

Here's what I would suggest:

Zero needs to make "regional service centers" which could even possibly be existing dealers.  These regional service centers need to be located no more than 6 hours' drive away from other dealerships that would be in this arrangement.  At each of these locations needs to be a certified Zero engineer that can do all work, including internal battery work.  The motorcycle(s) to be worked on can be transported via utility van.  6 hours each way allows for bike induction at the dealership by the end user on one day, transfer overnight, work on the next day, return-transfer overnight, and final verification + delivery on the third day.  The transfers can be handled by contractors that specialize in this sort of work.

The other alternative would be for Hollywood Electrics to come to an arrangement with Zero, have them do training and "internship" for lack of a better word there for anyone that wants to do this work at a Zero dealership anywhere, but this would take longer to accumulate the needed talent.  Kind of like a dealership "skunkworks" in a sense.

Perhaps both could be done in parallel, there needs to be a means of growing the talent pool more quickly, and a way of reducing the turnaround time for work performed.

Of course, perhaps Zero could make an agreement with a larger ICE motorcycle dealer network such as HD or BMW with more resources at their disposal.  I don't know how those are organized so I don't know how practical that would be.

[CrashCash]

I would also like to point out that every major vehicle brand has roving technical specialists that will visit a dealer to solve warranty and mechanical problems that the dealers can not solve themselves.  I have heard that BMW has several of these factory representatives that are available to assist dealers with unusual issues that can not be otherwise resolved.

Are you sure about that? BMW might, as that's part of why you stump up the bucks, but I'd be seriously surprised at GM or Ford doing such a thing. GM's "fuck you" attitude at not being able to fix the ABS on my Camaro in the '90s is a major reason I don't have a car.

Anyway, Zero is still pretty tiny at the moment, not making much of a profit so far, and they have a HUGE mountain of work ahead of them. These things will take time. I wonder if their "techs onna plane" are actually R&D folks sent out as they can spare the time. That's what I've seen in small computer firms of similar size to Zero.

I wish they could staff a large dealer/service center in every state like Tesla but I don't think they've got the bucks.

[bigd]

I would suggest trying to get into a partnership with Tesla SC. Others on here may know the hurdles to that but to me, it seems logical. Since Tesla is promoting EV use they should jump on this also.

[Yon]

There's nothing complicated about Zero Motorcycles.  The problem is the capabilities of the average motorcycle service center.

[Richard230]

There's nothing complicated about Zero Motorcycles.  The problem is the capabilities of the average motorcycle service center.

Whom I can't blame, as how would their technicians be expected to know anything about repairing electric power systems, other than the 12V electrics that they are familiar with?  It is going to take either professional training at a school and/or a lot of on-the-job training for motorcycle techs to acquire sufficient skills and knowledge to be able to sort out motorcycle electric drive problems - especially as each brand likely uses their own designs and there is no standardization in the "industry".  This problem is just going to take time to sort out and until that happens, the EV owner is just going to have to deal with it in whatever way they can.   

[oobflyer]

I, too, had a bad purchase experience, and a couple of bad service experiences with the dealership (NorCal Mastercraft) where I bought my 2012 ZF9. They didn't know anything about the bike when I bought it and they had no idea what to do when there was a problem. I don't know how much time Zero invested in training the NorCal Mastercraft staff, but my impression was that NorCal Mastercraft never took the bikes seriously, and couldn't care less about the success or failure of Zero. Zero wisely severed that relationship.
I have a test-ride scheduled at the new dealership (Contra Costa Powersports in Concord, CA) in a few weeks - I'll be asking a lot of questions.

I like bigd's idea - Tesla should just make a little space at their existing "store" network for some electric two-wheelers ;-)

[jheth]

The only video link I found on this page is the presentation. Is there a video of the interview as well?