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[Richard230]

Mike Werner dug up this odd kickstarter project.  It might be great for transport between classes on a large university campus, but I sure wouldn't ride it on the street.  See his story here:  http://news.motorbiker.org/blogs.nsf/dx/idea-back-up-electric-motorcycle-for-electric-motorcycles.htm

[Richard230]

More foldable scooters can be seen in this report by Cleanrider, including the Impossible version:

http://cleanrider.com/foldable-scooters-e-t-impossible/

[teddillard]

Somebody didn't do their maths...   

[teddillard]

Here's my tutorial, if anyone wants a little more critical look at this Kickstarter scam thing.   

http://insideevs.com/silly-scooters-impossible-impossible-impossible/

[Richard230]

I don't think I will argue with you Ted.  Unfortunately, there are a lot of napkin-designs on the internet that are really attracted to electric propulsion, I guess because most people don't understand the physics behind the technology.   

[protomech]

Lead acid is a bad comparison, but even the Li-on options are not great.

The i-Ped 16 is the most efficient of their scooters. It is rated at 28V 16Ah = 448 Wh, with a range of 18 miles in Eco mode = 25 Wh/mile.

Energy used by small scooters will be dominated by rolling resistance. Go-ped claims a 170 pound rider on smooth flat ground, at an unstated speed. The Impossible might be able to transport a much lighter human - say a small child - on low rolling-resistance tires at < 10 mph. But certainly not an "American-sized" adult at the maximum 12 mph speed.

[Mike Werner]

"American-sized" adult

 

[CrashCash]

Apparently in this case it's downhill both ways.

[teddillard]

I don't think I will argue with you Ted.  Unfortunately, there are a lot of napkin-designs on the internet that are really attracted to electric propulsion, I guess because most people don't understand the physics behind the technology.

Yeah, and unfortunately there are a lot of "journalists" who will simply regurgitate these napkin designs' promotional copy via websites or press releases without really any critical thought, analysis or expertise.  I don't think they're doing anybody any favors - just propagating the scams so prevalent in the current EV market.  For example, my take on that Mini thing everybody's so ridiculously excited about (for no reason I can really comprehend): http://insideevs.com/mini-debuts-electric-citysurfer-scooter-at-2014-la-auto-show/

No offense intended, just sayin'.

[Richard230]

While these design hot-air trial balloons may not make any engineering or marketing sense, I do like to read about and see them. Most of these projects show some out-of-the-box thought and many look kind of cute and visually interesting.  I just wouldn't buy one - unless I owned a modern industrial art museum.   

[teddillard]

I guess I look at it a little differently.  Where do you draw the line between a design project and fraud?  If they posted in the "Risks" section "We really don't know anything about building a vehicle like this, and we may just take your money and go home." then it's up to the backers to decide. 

I'm also coming from the experience of helping a friend by trying to fix one of these EV Kickstarter projects.  After spending a few thousand dollars the guy had a brick, and no support at all from the "company" making the product. 

Still, buyer (backer) beware, but there are a whole lot of really talented people who know what they're doing who are not getting backing due to this kind of thing.  One bad apple... 

OK, getting down off the soap box, but to say it again, I don't feel like it's doing anything good for EVs.  Either the projects, or the rubber-stamp promotion and publicity people give them. 

[teddillard]

To follow up on this, it seems there are a few backers who may be having some concerns.  Read the comments here: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1181257820/impossible-0/comments

"@Roma i fully agree. There has been no concrete updates, videos, pictures or addressing fundamental questions. What we have been getting is just generic stuff that we can google off the net or a work in progress that someone lost a laptop/they have a small team/they have been working really hard.... kind of replies. To me, that is not really an update but more of excuses.

@Creator i suggest posting up pictures of any form of hardware that you might have at this stage to be more transparent to us backers. Just keep us in the loop of this of what is happening no matter how small or what kind of problems you may encounter. Maybe we can bounce ideas off you guys when you get stuck.

...to cite only one. 

This one in particular: "Having famous websites writing about this product certainly helps with the credential, but none of them actually ride one before."

My comment above stands.  There are 673 backers (to date) on that project who are going to be sorely disappointed unless somehow the laws of physics are re-written, and those are backers who might have backed any number of Kickstarter projects that were realistic.  Giving a scam airtime without bothering to determine if it's anything but a scam isn't doing anyone any favors. 

And Kickstarter needs to have accountability for providing a platform for this kind of fiasco.  They make money off of it, they need to take some responsibility. 

Maybe following EVs for as long as I have, building a few, writing about them for over 10 years and seeing scams large and small come and go have just tapped me out on my patience for this.  Or do I just sound "like some old guy..."?   

[Richard230]

Speaking about the "laws of physics", anyone been to the movies lately?  My guess is that most of the world's population get their education in physics from watching action or science fiction movies.  If you watch that stuff, anything is apparently possible.   

[nanajittung]

Instead of foldable scooter, this weight about  10kg (22lbs) and go as fast at 18 kph