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[chdfarl]

[Richard230]

So which bike did you like the most, chdfarl?  The Zero or the Brammo?

[chdfarl]

Without a doubt the Brammo topped the Zero in my opinion. The Empulse is a bit of a pig on the scales but it's not felt on the seat. But since I mentioned the seat the Brammos was far less comfy.
I was disappointed that neither would wheelie and it left me wondering where all that torque was hiding. That might be that I left it in Eco mode but the salesman said that it wasn't that far off of the sport mode. That said the Empulse feels like a motorcycle with stronger acceleration and braking, though in my assessment the brake fork and wheel sizes are overdone and a big part of the weight issue. The things got liter bike components on a bike with the HP of a 500. That is where my criticism of the bike ends its beautiful and fun.
The Zero S on the other hand looks very confused to me. It seems too tied to its roots as a dirt bike but trying to be a commuter while looking like an overweight motard. Now though I felt that the acceleration was quite Burgmanesque (I refer to the Suzuki Burgman a large displacement scooter) the mid-range speed, brakes and overall ride was close to the Brammo.
No doubt the Zero lovers are up in arms at this moment petitioning to boot me but in the end if I were to buy an electric motorcycle today it wouldn't be the Zero S or the Brammo Empulse it would be the FX but only since the Engage was shelved.

[Burton]

My zero will throw anyone into the back of the seat if they are not gripping the tank tightly every time you use max throttle.

Not sure what my settings are on the size 6 controller yet. Haven't ridden a stock S or SR yet to compare, if I did I would definitely use sport mode to get the top acceleration. Then switch to eco with 100% torque, 0% regen, 100% brake regen to compare it to.

When my regen is at 0% on the app the bike feels weak but still a little better than my ninja 250. With it at 60% it was enough to make my friend get light headed, something he says only happens with really fast bikes he has ridden. He has not tried it at 100% yet.

How was shifting on the Brammo?

[Richard230]

I like the Zero, not because I think it is a better motorcycle than the Brammo Empulse, but because I use it for running errands, carrying stuff and just getting around, not for sport. If I did, I would not be happy with the Zero's suspension, brakes and high speed handling, compared with the Empulse. But all I want is basic transportation that requires minimal servicing, can be charged from my home's 120V outlet, is easy to operate, quiet and doesn't have a clutch or transmission to mess with.  Also, my Zero dealer is located only about 8 miles (a 15-minute motorcycle, or a 50-minute bus ride plus over an hour of walking) away.

[Cortezdtv]

My zero will throw anyone into the back of the seat if they are not gripping the tank tightly every time you use max throttle.

Not sure what my settings are on the size 6 controller yet. Haven't ridden a stock S or SR yet to compare, if I did I would definitely use sport mode to get the top acceleration. Then switch to eco with 100% torque, 0% regen, 100% brake regen to compare it to.

When my regen is at 0% on the app the bike feels weak but still a little better than my ninja 250. With it at 60% it was enough to make my friend get light headed, something he says only happens with really fast bikes he has ridden. He has not tried it at 100% yet.

How was shifting on the Brammo?

What bike do you own??



My little FXr is everything but slow, I doubt a sr could even keep up 0 to 70; if I can keep the wheel down

[chdfarl]

My zero will throw anyone into the back of the seat if they are not gripping the tank tightly every time you use max throttle.
How was shifting on the Brammo?

That sounds like an offer to ride it!

Shifting the Brammo or any other bike is not an issue to me. I see it as part of the driving experience and the clutch is completely unnecessary. At first I was scared not to use it since power shifting can be hard on transmissions of ice bikes and it was a demo bike but with an electric there's no stress. So in my video half way through I stopped using the clutch even for downshifts. Heres one thing the direct drive fans overlook, What happens if your motor burns up and locks the back tire. There is no free wheeling then, so have a nice trip.

[Burton]

I own Electric Cowboys 2013 S ZF11.4 Race bike; then one he took up pikes peak.

It has a ventilated motor with full ceramic bearings.
Size 6 controller with custom programming, it was de-tuned a little from race settings but is faster than a 2014 SR
Linderman Adjusted suspension (DS)
Gearing reduced for higher speed.
Yamaha dirtbike master cylinder for really crips braking

I don't have a setup where I can get the 0-60 time as I wear my camera inside my helmet which would require me to look down in my tank area where the koso display is instead of looking forward lol

[chdfarl]

I like the Zero, not because I think it is a better motorcycle than the Brammo Empulse, but because I use it for running errands, carrying stuff and just getting around, not for sport. If I did, I would not be happy with the Zero's suspension, brakes and high speed handling, compared with the Empulse. But all I want is basic transportation that requires minimal servicing, can be charged from my home's 120V outlet, is easy to operate, quiet and doesn't have a clutch or transmission to mess with.  Also, my Zero dealer is located only about 8 miles (a 15-minute motorcycle, or a 50-minute bus ride plus over an hour of walking) away.

Well you could do that stuff with the Brammo. They sell a storage box and doesn't the charge cord plug into the wall like the Zero. You could ride the Empulse without shifting it either.
Im happy people buy both bikes since they are both electric and American. I don't understand why some people (not you Richard230) feel that they should pick a team. Personally I don't like the looks of the Zeros even the FX and the S and one could assume the DS feels very scooter like to me and I like to play on my bikes so they aren't for me but no doubt they are a good simple commuter.     

[Cortezdtv]

I own Electric Cowboys 2013 S ZF11.4 Race bike; then one he took up pikes peak.

It has a ventilated motor with full ceramic bearings.
Size 6 controller with custom programming, it was de-tuned a little from race settings but is faster than a 2014 SR
Linderman Adjusted suspension (DS)
Gearing reduced for higher speed.
Yamaha dirtbike master cylinder for really crips braking

I don't have a setup where I can get the 0-60 time as I wear my camera inside my helmet which would require me to look down in my tank area where the koso display is instead of looking forward lol

ahhh how I love hotroded zeros.   They get sooooo fast

Just curious what is top speed?

And have you ever tried?
30 tooth front and 98 rear? Or do you have 25 98?

30 and 98 was pretty fast for me.  Not quick but    Wow




Sorry to side track the thread

[chdfarl]

Side track? that's not side tracking we're discussing the Zero and I love seeing and discussing hot-rodded vehicles, period! And those are good questions.

Now ill derail the topic but not really. Is the lack of real punch on those stock bikes due to the linear settings On the Sevcon or something else. Seriously my 71 CB 450 feels like it pulls harder.

 

[Burton]

If I don't use the zero app there is no top speed. That is it isn't limited by the app.

I can't admit to how fast I may or may not have had the bike I want to take it to a quarter mile track though but I need to prep for winter first. I can always reprogram and strip it down later for that test.

It has a 25 98 gearing right now. It is de-tuned enough not to spin the rear tire when you take off on the line but I have seen the bike do it before it was sent to me.

As for chdfarl's question are you comparing it in sport mode? Was it a SR or S ? The SR is going to throw more amps down range. That said if I recall the amps are capped bellow the max of the size 6 controller. On my bike it isn't capped if I recall.

I will know more when I get my IXXAT in the mail and open up the settings.

[chdfarl]

I can't admit to how fast I may or may not have had the bike I want to take it to a quarter mile track though but I need to prep for winter first. I can always reprogram and strip it down later for that test.

Why cant you admit it, your secrets safe with us

It has a 25 98 gearing right now. It is de-tuned enough not to spin the rear tire when you take off on the line but I have seen the bike do it before it was sent to me.

Sounds like fun!

As for chdfarl's question are you comparing it in sport mode? Was it a SR or S ? The SR is going to throw more amps down range. That said if I recall the amps are capped bellow the max of the size 6 controller. On my bike it isn't capped if I recall.

My question was in general towards both the Zero S and Brammo since I rode them both and they were a bit disappointing in that respect. I had expected that if you cranked on the throttle that the front end would at least lighten. The Empulse wasn't bad it did pull way harder than the Zero and I never put the Empulse in sport mode (too busy messing with the camera) but the Zero was in sport buy time the camera was on. The Brammo salesman said that the sport mode wasn't that different though only the regen was different. Now it my understanding that they both use a sevcon and was wondering if it is the throttle mapping taming the torque delivery but your post seems to address that. Id love to compare the SR but couldn't find one even after traveling over 1000 miles to Florida to ride those two bikes.

[Burton]

Torque curves, as well as torque values can be adjusted in the sevcon controllers. From what I have been told stock bikes are intentionally detunned. Your best bet at feeling the full potential would be to find someone who has set theirs up for racing and has spent the time modifying the sevcon programming.

Then if you decided to go the route of upgrading your programming you would have to get a copy of their's and upload it onto yours via DVT software used to interface with the sevcon controllers.

But realize you might experience overheating issues if you do not ventilate the motor for example. I am not aware of anyone who has upgraded the programming on a SR yet but I do know Electric Cowboy won several events with it stock. You can bet when he starts racing again after setting some records with the stock 2015 he will modify the programming if he can.

I won't admit on a public form to anything my state might be able to use against me in a court of law On another note the speed is off on the speedo by +3 and the miles driven are off as well. If I go ~27 miles it reads 29 miles. I suspect this is because of the gearing.

[benswing]

To answer your question, yes the throttle is mapped so you don't get as much torque off the line so people don't spin their tires or do a wheelie.   

Also, try out a Zero SR.  They are awesome.  Good punch off the line (still mapped down a bit for safety), but once you hit 30mph the acceleration really rips!