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[Patrick Truchon]

Since the motorcycle contains about $10,000's worth of batteries, I was wondering if it would be possible to capitalize on that investment and use it as part of an off-the-grid system.  How would such a system need to be designed?  In particular, given that the battery pack has a maximum voltage of 117.6VDC (right?):

• How would the solar panels and/or wind turbine connect to the bike to charge it?  What system would need to be in place to ensure that it doesn't get overcharged and that the cells remain well balanced?
• How would the bike connect to the cottage to provide 110VAC?  Is there such a thing as an 110VDC-110VAC inverter that can provide say 5kW of power?

[DynoMutt]

I'm very curious to know the answer to this question as well.  It seems like a great application.

Imagine this as an application for military field operations as well.  I think Zero could find a real-world case for this that can be funded pretty quickly.  That is just my humble opinion.

[Burton]

Terry apparently bought his bike for this reason specifically. I am sure if you ask him he would tell you the details

[protomech]

See discussion here for charging:
http://electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=2897.0

Doctorbass recommends a boost DC/DC converter to charge the battery directly. I would recommend setting the DC/DC level to terminate the charge somewhat lower than full, perhaps 4.10-4.15 volts per cell (114.8 volts to 116.2 volts) for best battery life.

The BMS should handle both over volt and under volt protection (maybe 3.2 volts up to 4.2 volts per cell? 89.6V to 117.6V). You will need to periodically allow the BMS to balance the battery pack, which will require bringing it up to 100%. Maybe the first DC/DC is adjustable, maybe you use a second DC/DC? Balancing will be tricky I think, if you normally terminate charge below the balance point.

For the inverter, you could use an inverter designed for 96V lead acid operation. Typically these accept an operational input from ~80V DC to ~130V DC.

Here's an example of a 5kW pure sine inverter for 96V operation:
http://www.sespvt.com/products.php?product=96-Volt-5kW-Pure-Sine-Wave-Inverter

[nigezero]

Guys

I've been in solar for 21 years and am obsessed with this application for them. Been talking with lots of inverter charger and fast charger people (in Australia) about what the challenges are, especially for use in grid connected applications. Got some interest from Government too - they see the whole vehicle to grid thing as potentially huge.

Off Grid use should be a whole lot easier but fundementally two key challenges in either application - 1 - teh voltage is unusual for inverters and 2) the control algorithum that protects the batteries, and allows you to simply manage for home power AND riding needs to be pretty clever.

Really interested in hearing form anyone on this subject.

[BSDThw]

teh voltage is unusual for inverters

That is true but at the moment a lot of storage grid inverters are in the labs. I wouldn't be surprised if some would fit.

the control algorithum that protects the batteries

The system use CAN (OPEN?) to communicate sine 2013 mods. It would be possible but a to of extra work to do.

I have a MPP-Tracker on my desk for 12 to 48V systems but the HW could run a 80V battery - still unsure if I should do the work to make it fit to my 2012 (74V)- but the 116V since 2013 I don't have a HW at the moment.

[SoundMusic]

Here is a an invertor that will work
 I was thinking of purchasing one of the following units for off Grid emergencies.
>
> http://www.sespvt.com/products.php?product=96-Volt-5kW-Pure-Sine-Wave-Inverter

Here is the answer from the engineers at Zero

Plugging into the AUX port is harmless to the motorcycle, it is on a 100A fuse. He will just have to turn the motorcycle on in order to energize those contacts. As you know the bike turns off after 1 hour of idle time, which may cause and issue and if he is able to trick the bike by spoofing a delta Q circuit it may notice the lack of charge current and shut off in just a few minutes.
 
The inverter looks perfect for our battery, ask him to give us a report after using it for a while we would love to be able to recommend an inverter that works with our bikes. I would tell time that in order not to damage the inverter he should Turn the bike off, wait 2 minutes so the capacitors in the Sevcon are discharged then plug in the inverter and key the bike on. Otherwise if he plugs the inverter in while the bike is energized it will arch and can damage the capacitors.
 
Also by holding the throttle open with something he will be able to keep the bike from turning off after an hour.
 
Our bikes should turn off at 88 volts just above the inverter cutoff so this inverter if perfect.
 
-Engineer

[Mr. Fusion]

I'm a bit confused now. I thought the auxilliary charger port would be rated (and fused) 30A?! Or do they mean the Chademo port?

[Yon]

Why not the 2kW?  http://www.sespvt.com/products.php?product=96-Volt-2kW-Pure-Sine-Wave-Inverter
It appears are far better value and good place to start at only $391 USD, especially company to nearly 5x more or $1863 USD for 5kW.
You'll need to have configured to draw power from 116v DC down to around 88v DC to leave a safety margin and not over discharge.
Very interested just haven't the time to study/mess with myself.  If anyone successfully implements please let us know!

[DynoMutt]

http://www.amazon.com/2Wheel-Ride-GC-1-Motorcycle-Throttle/dp/B0055QOKC8/ref=pd_sim_auto_3?ie=UTF8&refRID=0FD21Q33HWGCX79126WE

Cruise control has a new purpose.

Also, wiring in some kind of hidden headlight switch might be appropriate for the application, be sure to check your local laws.

[Patrick Truchon]

Why not the 2kW?  http://www.sespvt.com/products.php?product=96-Volt-2kW-Pure-Sine-Wave-Inverter
It appears are far better value and good place to start at only $391 USD, especially company to nearly 5x more or $1863 USD for 5kW.

At $195.50 per kW, the 2kW inverter seems like a really good place to start (as opposed to $372.60 per kW for the 5kW one).

Does anyone know where to draw always ON power for the inverter?  Burton?

I mapped out all the connections on the 2013 S

[Burton]

Does anyone know where to draw always ON power for the inverter?  Burton?

EDIT: Added diagram screen capture as attachment, pins in question have red circles on them. Find the full diagram for download in the attachments section of this post http://electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=3603.msg20961#msg20961

How many amps do you need to pull for the input of this inverter?

Pins 5 / 7 on the molex connector going to battery which connects to pins 2 / 3 on the sevcon connector. I have a video on my channel somewhere http://www.youtube.com/callmeburton

If you don't have a 2013 S / DS then check the voltage at your sevcon. But these wires are 16AWG (on my bike) which means a max of 22 amps... I think. This is where I would start and tap into those then monitor the temperature of those wires. Proceed with caution of course.

What voltage output did you decide to go with ?

[Doug S]

I love this thread -- the idea of getting double usage out of an expensive battery pack is really intriguing -- but I struggle to get my head around any useful usage model for doing this. The way I use MY bike is to drive it during the day (commuting, mostly, but also for errands and fun rides), then recharge it at night. To use the battery for, say, storing solar energy, the usage model would be to charge it up during the day, then use the stored energy at night. But what do I do in the morning, when my bike is discharged? I suppose you could use the bike for commuting at home, then haul it up to the cabin for a vacation, but even then I'd want to be able to ride the bike during the day -- what use is a vacation if you don't get to ride your bike??

Has someone else figured this out, or are the battery packs in a vehicle and for solar power storage just at cross purposes?

[nigezero]

By way of an update, I have been talking to a load of inverter/storage manufacturers and installers on a project over the last couple of weeks. It was fascinating and we actually developed a couple of way cool spreadsheet models to analyse the performance, economics, discharge levels and so-on. By surveying every manufacturer and supplier I could, we then got a bunch of data to input and did a bit of normalisation to allow comparisons. There are some really clever bastards out there installing stationary batteries on Grid connected solar houses in Australia (why here? thats another story, but trust me, we are one of the bigger markets surprisingly). By the end of this year, I reckon there could be 1000 installed and 95% are using a) Lithium batteries (in one chemistry or another) and b)Multi mode inverter chargers that can do pretty much anything you need (import, export, charge, discharge, time of use settings, zero export settings, PF correction and much more). So, the hardware and software exists and is in fact the same stuff used in off grid solar already. The only missing piece of the puzzle for us is the DC voltage. I found 1 company (http://www.magellanpower.com.au/projects) who do make one that is right (125V DC) and its 5kW, bi-directional, multi mode, designed for Lithium (or others), adjustable and even approved for use here. Only problem is, they are a boutique industrial manufacturer and think its worth almost $12,000 AUD. It's not.

So, if you have lazy $12k, I can get you one. Meantime, I'm continuing to work with loads of others and begging for a more realistic solution which should be around half the price. One very large inverter manufacturer has pseudo promised to make me a Beta test site for them, before the end of the year, so I'm holding on.

[nigezero]

Oh, actually I forgot to mention I did find another company with a product (and lots of great intentions who also reckon they have a product suitable for the job here http://www.gridbusters.com.au/zeroexporthibrid.html.

They couldn't tell me much about it, or how to buy it but insisted it was available..........

I'm much less convinced, but they do claim to have some installed and in fact showed me a live feed of data from a supposedly real site. So perhaps its real. I will keep pushing.