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[Doctorbass]

Well I thoink that once you will have draw your schematic I will understand easyer what connection you plan to do.

I'm a little confused with that:
Charger stack 1:
Charger 1 in series with Charger 2 (both powered by J1772 for 20amps)
Charger 1 (outputs negative) Connects to charger 3 via 6pin connector for pins 1 3 5
Charger 2 (outputs positive) Connects to charger 4 via 6 pin connector for pins 1 3 5
Charger stack 2:
Charger 3 in series with Charger 4 (one powered by J1772 for 10amps and another from a 5-15 at ~16 amps)
Charger 3 (outputs negative) Connects to charger 1 via 6pin connector for pins 1 3 5
Charger 4 (outputs positive) Connects to charger 2 via 6 pin connector for pins 1 3 5

Maybe you should describe Parallel first and then serie instead of serie first..

For the charging rate, Yes 1C at high ambient temp will degrade battery capacity over the time..

I'm charging at 0.75C and the battery raise to 30 degree C at ambient temp of 21 degree C wich is acceptable.

Luke said 1.25 C can be done with the 2012 battery if temp remain normal but the 2013 battery have a C rate a little bit lower wich reduce their ability to charge at higher rate. EIG cells  of the 2012 and Farasis of the 2013 are different NMC. the Farasis have a bit higher energy density at cost of a little less power but with the high kWh of the pack the 2013= bike don't have any problem because high capacity solve the problem of the lower C-rate wich come to similar power to energy ratio of performance.

For 90A continuous a 6 gauge is limit but acceptable if the wire is having a silicon skin. It is best to use 4 gauge as well for 90A but I wonted to use my SB50 Anderson wich is not possible unless I remove some strand in the cable...

If you drive 90A with 4 charger in 2 parallel and 2 serie  a 6 gauge at output MUST have silicon skin because temp might go over 70 degree C. And the cable MUST NOT BE ENCLOSED in a multi cable skin and must remain alone to better cool at ambient air...

As well if you don't want any problem with cable heat you can go with 4 gauge but you will have to buy the SB120... just like the older 2011- Zero was using for the battery ( remember the blue one?)

 For the 30A input of my 3 charger even at 36A on the 208V AC the 10 AWG Turnigy silicon wires  form hobbyking combined with the 30A Anderson PP30  are perfect! If you use 4 charger you might need to use a gauge 8 wich will require you to  use the SB50 for the AC connections.. but that's only if you connect all the 4 charger to the same AC input... If you connect 3 the 10AWH and PP30 remain the best choice. they stay cold !!

Doc

[Burton]

Got home and went to charge from 98 volts, 17%, and both chargers gave me a red led indicator. I had to adjust the voltage down on the Chargers to  55.5 for them to not shutdown.

I suspect the voltage was too  low for them to work properly but from 99/100 it works fine :/

[Burton]

I come bearing gifts! lol

Not sure if I have the sensing circuits right. I connected the shared negative units to each other and shared positives to each other.
The voltage sensing is basically what you would get with two in series. Wasn't sure if I should connect the lower stack in parallel to the termination point where they meet the other chargers or to the battery connector as currently indicated.

I included a 3 circuit switch as I assume I would have to toggle it so the meanwell doesn't get confused if only one stack of the two is on. (might not be required and would require testing to confirm either way)



But wait there is more!

[Burton]

Found more connectors including the pins I needed and updated post

http://electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=3987.msg25494#msg25494

EDIT: Updated to add 2 pin connector for Anderson to BMS pins 38/40 battery

[firepower]

Hi Burton, Can you make the blue conductor serially linking the power supplies to the battery same thickness as the red and black, as it has to carry the same amount of current.
Just looks odd being narrow compared to the others.
 

[Burton]

Hi Burton, Can you make the blue conductor serially linking the power supplies to the battery same thickness as the red and black, as it has to carry the same amount of current.
Just looks odd being narrow compared to the others.

I assume you mean the last 4 charger array I posted up with the concept of running 3 from a J1772 and 1 from the 5-15 ?  I don't even know if the current sensing / sharing is set up right on that drawing or not but I can change it in the future It isn't a final drawing .... I think.

Also I don't know if these chargers can handle having two power sources, one 240v the other 120v, without blowing up Theoretically they should be just fine I would think.

[firepower]

Ask the Doc or Terry, they seems to have most experience, i am sure he tell you if he doesn't think it capable.
You sure are pushing the envelope.

[Burton]

Ask the Doc or Terry, they seems to have most experience, i am sure he tell you if he doesn't think it capable.
You sure are pushing the envelope.

This method of charging is new ground for Terry. Doc though has his own stack and from what I can gather likely has enough information to be an electrical engineer if he isn't already

[Nuts n Volts]

I've received two of the RSP supplies.  Been reading through this thread and can't find an answer.  What diodes would work best for this application?

[Burton]

I sent you a reply in your inbox. Didn't see this when you posted it or I would have replied here first

http://youtu.be/sYivalPInPw?t=5m30s (skip to 5.30 for the diode info)

http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Diodes-Incorporated/SBR60A150CT/?qs=%2fha2pyFaduiuCz4tq9DWl0f5vZkbnsTjUKICSxWNBtA7Qnfj9phU5Q%3d%3d
You need 2 diodes if your going to be running two in series (for ~40amps out)

If you run more than say 50 amps out then you need 2 per unit so 4 total.

[Burton]

Long awaited update.

Got RMA unit back from meanwell and put stack back together. In this video I am making sure both units are identical for output power and consumption.


I still have to make a "box" for them so they don't move around much and this week I am going to go test them at some local public charging locations to make sure they work. If all goes well I will be taking my first trip > 200 miles round trip this weekend.

[Burton]

Seems I am not out of the woods yet.

Today I plugged the stack in to test it for this weekends trip and I wanted to confirm the voltage was identical for both units. I should add the voltage sensing circuit is not in place and it wasn't when I was using it before either.

I could have sworn before I sent the unit off they were both reading the same voltage when charging.

Any EE's out there who can help  me figure this out?

Stationary they are both set to 57.0 ... when engaging the battery at 50% the top unit is about 52 and the bottom 57 0_0 ... Does this matter at all ? I am still getting 40 amps out to the bike but it worries me the rma unit isn't working as hard as the bottom one.

[Doctorbass]

Burton, I laugh when i saw you  having hard time holding the cam and trying to connect various connectors and probe voltage too.. lol.. this remind me when i make my YT vids.. lol  I can ensure you that you are not the only one in this situation.

To answer you , even with both psu adjusted the way you used in teh vid to get "about " the same current on both psu, thi swill not garanty you that you get the same voltage on  both.

The way these are built would require incredible accurate adjustment.. in other words not necessarely like you did with the way you had with the AC ammeter display...

But the good new is that you dont necessarily need to have both psu adjusted to the exact same voltage! And it does not mean that you get less power. If you connect both AC input to the same source then you dont have to worrie.

 Both psu are protected by a  constant power mode.. so none can overload!    once both will have reach the  Constant Voltage both will be the same power anyway. You dont have to care if one give more volt than the other.. what is important is that both give the same current witch is true because these are in serie so they dont have choice.. lol...  if one have 2 volt more than the other you dont have to care... both still work with in their spec range anyway and none can overload.

But if you absolutely want to have these same voltage.. well.. you can connect the voltage sense S+ and -S for each psu and you should get the same voltage as each psu will fight against the voltage loss in your various connections to get the program ( adjusted) voltage at the location you will have connected the sense wires. I this case if your pre adjustement of voltage is let say 56V on both .. then each psu will compensate and fight to get that voltage at the sense connections on your output wires.


Btw.. the displayed current on the label of the psu is the absolute max current it can draw at the lowest voltage of the given range .. In the DERATING LOAD(%) VS INPUT VOLTAGE spec the non limited power area of the graph start at 180V .. then it is constant up to 264V . the 12.3A you see  would be when the psu is at 180Vac input.

if you connect to normal 245Vac source it should draw max 10A.

btw these psu have a overcurrent control that is set to 125% of rated current witch mean when it is in constant current it can give you up to 25% more and constant of the ambiant temp is ideal depending on the AC input and equivalent resistance of the load. As well there is an optimal voltage and current where these psu give their max output. In the case of the 48V model it is optimized to 48V and give the max power and current. It's about 52.5A = 2520Watts output time the efficiency derating: 92% = about 2300W max dc. But at 115% voltage you drop to 87% of the rated current  =2001W.

Good luck fort your trip!

A great tip: prepare them to be protected against rain!

Doc

[Burton]

Reply posted here:
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=68230&p=1028538#p1028538

I will update this post if Doctorbass provides more information relative to this build.

When this is all "done" I will have to post up a new thread and reference this build with a link so people who want to build their own stack have all the information in one post

[Burton]

Looking at "case" options for this build. I would like to be able to mount this to the bike somewhere (like on homemade crashbars since I am not willing to pay $1400 for crash bars >_<) I want something weatherproof, but vented.

Here is one case which looks promising, and I suspect anything I find will require modification to make it work like I want to.
http://littlegreenhouse.com/accessory/e-waterbox-lg.jpg
Large 13" x 9" x 5.5" $23 ea (about size of an elcon charger inside!)

Scroll to bottom on this one. They are pretty big for what I want to do but the lid concept could be used on nearly any box if done right.
http://www.l-com.com/nema-enclosures

I think if I found any beefy weatherproof enclosure which would give me an inch of room on both sides of the chargers I could put vents on either side of the unit similar to the l-com ones but much, much, longer. Inside the enclosure I would obviously have to isolate the front vents from the rear on the units so air would flow properly.

For those wondering the size of the chargers are 11.65" x 5 x 3.22 (with both stacked on each other)

Another option might be to buy a $99 replacement "tank" and cut it up to make a custom tank complete with vents and enough room for the charging array.