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[Richard230]

Here is his video great review of the H-D LiveWire: 

http://www.autoblog.com/2014/08/11/jay-leno-harley-davidson-livewire-electric-motorcycle-video/

[MostlyBonkers]

I really enjoyed watching that. The only time I thought Jay did the bike a disservice was when he compared it to a 500cc ICE bike. That was after saying it does 0-60 in under 4 seconds. Similar power and top speed to a 500 perhaps, but litre bike + acceleration!

[Doug S]

The only time I thought Jay did the bike a disservice was when he compared it to a 500cc ICE bike. That was after saying it does 0-60 in under 4 seconds. Similar power and top speed to a 500 perhaps, but litre bike + acceleration!

I keep having the same reaction to many reviews, most of which seem to agree electric bikes are kinda like a middleweight ICE bike. If you look at the horsepower numbers, it's a valid comparison, but the torque of an EV makes it totally invalid. Why do we place so much importance on horsepower and ignore torque? Very, very few Hayabusa owners will ever see 180 mph on their bikes, but pretty much all of us will see how quickly our machines will tear away from a stoplight....fairly often for some of us! Even at freeway speeds, if you have to get around a truck to hit your offramp, on an electric bike you yank the throttle and you're gone; on an ICE bike you have to kick it down a couple (or a few) gears, then wait out throttle lag. I'd roll on my SR against pretty much any bike from 65-80 mph.

[BSDThw]

Code: [Select]

Why do we place so much importance on horsepower and ignore torque?
I fear the reason it torque without RMP is nothing. OK with EV torque is constant till field weakening and if you know nominal RPM it is what you need.
But an ICE torque without the RPM to torque diagram will be not much of information. 1000Nm at a 500RPM machine is equal to 100Nm at a 5000RPM nominal motor.
Important is how steady the torque is produced at an ICE.

[AustinSZF8.5]

Important is how steady the torque is produced at an ICE.

I kind of disagree. What's most important is how ridable the package is and what it feels like when you twist the throttle. Bike guys compare numbers to decide what models they want to consider purchasing, I know I do. But the EV world requires a bit of a shift in thinking due to the different way that the power is delivered. Real gearheads get it - torque (and more to the point, usable torque) is what you're after. That's what makes a vehicle fun, it's what throws you back in your seat, makes it feel fast. But the majority of motorcycle buyers have been trained that HP = good. More HP, more good.

A long time ago there was an article in Sport Compact Car about the Mitsubishi Lancer Evo IX (I think) and how its highish 0-60 score belied the performance you're getting because the car was geared properly for rally performance which required a shift to 3rd to reach 60mph ultimately hurting its 0-60 times. Basically, it blamed the journalism industry for ruining the proper performance of cars by putting so much weight behind numbers like peak HP and 0-60 times. When all the magazines and therefore their readers started paying attention to those figures, manufacturers started to design cars to put up good figures instead of provide proper all-around performance. That's part of what's happening here I think - that the general public has been taught to pay attention to the wrong things.

As more reviews come out that say that the bike feels faster than its 54hp rating would suggest, more people will be interested I think. The comparisons to a 500cc ICE machine don't help though, and for that all I can say is that it's just wrong, and it makes me question the authority of the reviewer.