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[francesco]

Hi all,

I've been lurking in the forum for a while trying to gather information about the Zeros, but it's time to ask direct questions...

I will be moving to the SF Bay Area in a few months, i'll need to buy a vehicle for my ~10 miles commute, and my wife already has a car that we could use for longer trips. In addition, i never rode a motorbike before... --> From what I read, a Zero seems to be a perfect fit. In particular I'm thinking about the 2014 S ZF8.5...is it too ambitious for a beginner?

My main concern: how long will it take to become a proud owner?
Do dealers (I understand Mission Motorcycles in Daly City is where I want to go, right?) keep a few models in stock or it has to be ordered?
Once the order is placed, how long before delivery? Weeks? Months?
I'm afraid I won't last long with public transport, which means a >1 hr commute for ~10 miles.

Beside, will Zero still take orders for 2014 models in November/December?

I guess I will have to ask these questions to the dealer, when the time comes, but I'd love to hear what the owners experienced and recommend.

Thanks!

[Richard230]

Hello Francesco.  I think that a Zero is the perfect motorcycle to learn how to ride on because of its simplicity of use, compared with most other two-wheel vehicles.  It is relatively light, it is stable, handles better than any scooter and is cheap to operate.  Not having to deal with a clutch and gearbox gives you a lot more brainpower to focus on the traffic around you (something that will keep you occupied in the Bay Area).  Be sure to take a State approved riding course.  Besides helping you to learn how to ride, it will make getting your motorcycle license endorsement easier.  Unfortunately, all of the schools that I know of use small gearbox-equipped IC motorcycles, so you will be taught how to use a clutch and how to shift.  But that will just make you appreciate not having to do that on your new Zero.   

I think the 8.5 S will be a good choice for your intended use.  Mission Motorcycles in Daly City, on Mission Street, at the southern border of SF, has several Zero's on their showroom floor, plugged in and ready for delivery right now.  However, I am not sure if any of them are the 8.5 model (the 11.4 models apparently being more popular).  The ones that I saw last week were the 11.4 versions.  In any case, the factory is just a two-hour ride down the road and I have no doubt that their sales staff will be able to get you what you want in a couple of days - even if they have to drive down there and pick it up themselves. 

You want to talk with Nancy or Theresa. Tell them Richard said "hello".   

[vchampain]

You could also look for a used Zero S or even 2013 XU considered the small distance. Used market is probably very favorable to buyers.

[dkw12002]

The Zero S 8.5 is a light bike which makes it easier for new riders, plus there is no shifting which is friendlier to new riders too. The only downside I can think of is that the bike is expensive and new riders tend to drop bikes so that could get more expensive than buying a used 250r or something like that which if you dropped it, you could brush it off and keep going.

I owned a 2011 S and now a 2013 S. I bought both as demos with just a couple hundred miles on them and full warranties. I actually like demos better, cause you get to ride it and see exactly how the bike you are interested in performs. With a gas bike, you might worry how someone broke the bike in, but with an electric bike there is no breaking in period. If there were any issues with the bike like something not working right, the dealer would have fixed that too. No surprises in other words.

You can usually make a better deal on demos or the previous year's new bikes early January when the new model year bikes come out. In Jan. also you can compare the new model year to the previous year because more than once, when the new models came out, people who bought the year-old model wished they hadn't cause the new models were improved a lot. Last year toward the end of the year, Zero stopped shipping 2013s, so there weren't many 2013s left in Oct, Nov. I bought my 2013 S in June and it turned out to be lucky since the 2014 S didn't change much from the 2013s if you want the 8.5. People who wanted the race bike or the added storage found it was better to wait until the 2014s came out.

There should be some rumors circulating soon about changes for 2015, so by Oct/Nov you may already have an idea if you want to wait on a new model or buy the 2014.

I would love to be able to lane split, but alas, Texas doesn't allow it. There are a couple of YouTube videos of someone lane splitting on a Zero and it looks like a real time saver...for an experienced rider of course. Good luck. Oh yes, I have owned 30 motorcycles, more recently a Triumph Street Triple r, Gixxer 1000, Ninja 300, FZ-07...and my 2013 Zero S is my favorite bike EVER!.....fast, light, easy to ride, cheap to run, quiet, no warming it up, has some storage, won't overheat in stop and go traffic. 

[francesco]

Thanks you all for the responses!

Last year toward the end of the year, Zero stopped shipping 2013s, so there weren't many 2013s left in Oct, Nov.

This is precisely what I am concerned about.
Also because I'd rather not "gamble" on the new 2015 models. Based on what I read in this forum the 2014 models seem very reliable and only few owners had to deal with defects. If I can find a good used or demo bike I will definitely go for it.

[kensiko]

There's biolife who is selling his SR but it's a SR and cost a bit more

[AustinSZF8.5]

I'd be a little wary about an SR for a new rider. More info on Zeros for new riders in this thread if you haven't read it yet.

I had to special order my 2014 S ZF 8.5, and it took a little under four weeks to get to my dealer in TX. I was told by the dealer that Zero builds 8.5 bikes to order since they don't get much demand for them. Most people apparently opt for the larger battery capacity so Zero focuses on building and stocking the 11.4 machines and only build them with smaller packs when there is a specific demand for them.

[francesco]

Indeed the SR seems a bit much!

Beside the price tag, how different is the 11.4 wrt the 8.5? Would the additional weight make it significantly more difficult to handle for a beginner? Has anybody tried both?
I see in the other new riders thread people were happy with the 11.4 as their first bike...

The additional range, the possibility of having a "tested" bike (e.g. demos) right away (vs ~4 weeks to order a 8.5) would probably justify the extra $.

Stupid questions about beginners easily dropping the bike:
- how does that typically go?
- what kind of damage for a Zero? scratches and dents?
- cost (order of magnitude) for repairs?
Anyway, I definitely plan to take a riding course, as Richard suggests, and I hope to fill my quota of obvious mistakes using the school's bike!

[protomech]

My first bike (ever) was a Suzuki GS500, which fully fueled weighs about 30 pounds more than the S ZF11.4.

I've ridden a 2013 S ZF11.4 and 2014 DS ZF11.4, both felt very manageable to me.

I do appreciate the lighter weight of my 2012 S, but if you plan on doing longer rides, the extra battery is worth the money and weight IMO. If the S ZF8.5 will meet your range requirements then it may be a better choice, as it is less expensive, lighter and therefore a bit quicker.

Keep in mind any of the bikes can be detuned with the smartphone app (torque and maximum speed), SR included. You can use it to reward yourself for increasing competency and confidence..

I've dropped bikes several times at standstill. Stupid! Be very careful stopping on non-flat ground, as a 400 pound bike that can be balanced easily while flat can become a handful very quickly on any type of slant. At least you don't have to worry about flooding carbs when the bike is horizontal ..

The Zero plastics are inexpensive to replace - at least for 2012 and 2013. I replaced a lower right fairing for < $30 and a front fender (friend backed a car into the bike when it was parked..) for $120. The bikes are narrow, so typically dropping it will only scuff the handlebar grip ends, mirrors, and possibly the foot peg or lower plastics.

[dkw12002]

Like all manufacturers Zero prefers to sell bikes they make the most money with, which is why they prefer to sell you a bike with a bigger battery, send those to dealers, and you have to special order the smaller battery. But a bigger battery comes with a down side. Not only is it more expensive, but acceleration suffers due to the added weight...plus added weight means less maneuverability. It's a little like buying a motorcycle with 2 sizes of gas tanks. Would you buy the one with the larger gas tank knowing it would be heavier and slower? Not me. For me, 8.5 is the right size and weight for the S model. I am always amazed that people try to turn a Zero into a touring bike. Must be the challenge...like growing corn in Alaska instead of Illinois I guess. I say take advantage of what the bike does best....shorter trips and charge at home on your house current. I may be a little prejudice here because I much prefer the lighter bikes for performance, maneuverability, ease of moving in and out of the garage, and confidence. To each his own. It's all good (but 8.5 is better).

[AustinSZF8.5]

Stupid questions about beginners easily dropping the bike:
- how does that typically go?
- what kind of damage for a Zero? scratches and dents?
- cost (order of magnitude) for repairs?
Anyway, I definitely plan to take a riding course, as Richard suggests, and I hope to fill my quota of obvious mistakes using the school's bike!

There's an old adage about the two types of motorcycle riders being those who have dropped their bikes and those who will. I don't know any riders who haven't dropped a bike. Some drop at speed, some drop at standstill. I've done both several times and I wouldn't consider myself clumsy or unskilled. My first drop was in a low speed left turn due to a mechanical failure caused by a chain that had stretched and needed to be replaced - my fault. The second was a cold morning making a left turn out of a parking lot across a painted median, I hadn't noticed that the median had frosted over - my fault. The third was coming to a stop at a stoplight and putting my foot down into a pile of gravel, lost my footing and laid it over gently - arguably my fault, I pay more attention to where I'm putting my foot down now. The fourth was at low speed in a parking lot, some kid pulled out in front of me and I tossed the bike away rather than go into his fender and over his hood, the kid promptly took off leaving me with a broken thumb and damaged bike - most certainly not my fault. The most recent was just a few weeks ago when I was cleaning out my garage, rolled the Magna out into the driveway to make room to sweep out the floors, I was in a hurry, leaned the bike over onto the sidestand..........which wasn't there - definitely my fault. Point is, there are many many ways to get into trouble, some trouble worse than others. I certainly don't want to scare you away from motorcycling, but it's best to realize that dropping a bike is just part of the game. These machines are unstable by design and sometimes they fall over.

[cloroxbb]

Stupid questions about beginners easily dropping the bike:
- how does that typically go?
- what kind of damage for a Zero? scratches and dents?
- cost (order of magnitude) for repairs?
Anyway, I definitely plan to take a riding course, as Richard suggests, and I hope to fill my quota of obvious mistakes using the school's bike!

There's an old adage about the two types of motorcycle riders being those who have dropped their bikes and those who will. I don't know any riders who haven't dropped a bike. Some drop at speed, some drop at standstill. I've done both several times and I wouldn't consider myself clumsy or unskilled. My first drop was in a low speed left turn due to a mechanical failure caused by a chain that had stretched and needed to be replaced - my fault. The second was a cold morning making a left turn out of a parking lot across a painted median, I hadn't noticed that the median had frosted over - my fault. The third was coming to a stop at a stoplight and putting my foot down into a pile of gravel, lost my footing and laid it over gently - arguably my fault, I pay more attention to where I'm putting my foot down now. The fourth was at low speed in a parking lot, some kid pulled out in front of me and I tossed the bike away rather than go into his fender and over his hood, the kid promptly took off leaving me with a broken thumb and damaged bike - most certainly not my fault. The most recent was just a few weeks ago when I was cleaning out my garage, rolled the Magna out into the driveway to make room to sweep out the floors, I was in a hurry, leaned the bike over onto the sidestand..........which wasn't there - definitely my fault. Point is, there are many many ways to get into trouble, some trouble worse than others. I certainly don't want to scare you away from motorcycling, but it's best to realize that dropping a bike is just part of the game. These machines are unstable by design and sometimes they fall over.

You were in a parking lot, and feared you might "go over his hood..." How fast were you going in a parking lot?


 IMO the only people that say that adage about dropping bikes, are people that have dropped bikes. Like its an excuse for it, and its an inevitability... I also love how people call you a liar, if you have never dropped your bike. So because you have dropped your bike(s) that means everyone has dropped their bike... Im not saying you are doing this, just telling my experience.

[Justin Andrews]

I've dropped my bikes going to fast into corners, hitting oil, tires bursting, hitting the brakes too hard, ice and stupidity (forgetting to take the disk lock off the front wheel)

Ride long enough, and eventually you'll come off. I've rode almost every day for about 25 years, and I've come off a fair few times. Indeed my favorite story is the one where I hit the side of an ambulance at about 20-30mph and did'nt come off... That was pretty novel, made a right mess of my bike mind you (barely scratched the ambulance, UK ambulances as I discovered are TOUGH!) 

[Zoom]

I just bought an 8.5 zero S from mission motorcycles this month - they don't carry the smaller battery on their floor, will probably try to talk you into the larger battery, but are still happy to order one in the spec you want.  Geographically they are the closest dealer to where these bikes are built, so it shouldn't take long to get one fresh off the assembly line.  From writing a check to getting my 8.5 delivered at my home took about a week and a half.

It is an easy bike for a new rider to handle due to the lack of shifting and smooth, predictable power delivery.  Is it inevitable that you'll drop it or crash?  Not necessarily.  Self-inflicted crashes are often the product of either inexperience or recklessness.  Everyone is inexperienced at some point, but being reckless is optional.  I'll admit that in 9 years my sole incident was when I had only 10 miles under my belt - a bicycle surprised me by ignoring a 4-way stop while I turned left through the intersection, and my novice brain grabbed the brakes hard mid-turn.  I was leaning too far to stop so suddenly and ended up laying it down at 0mph, mangling my clutch lever and nothing else.  100% my fault, as maintaining control or anticipating the bikes behavior was totally possible, but my instincts were still clumsy.  Had that test been sprung on me even a week of practice later I might have fared better, but you're taking a gamble every time you get on a public road, ready or not. 

You might drop your brand new expensive bike, or not.  Who knows?  Get some insurance and some quality riding gear, don't try anything careless and you'll probably be fine.

[dkw12002]

You did good Zoom. I figured out why the Zero is so much faster than the 4.8 second zero to 60 sounds. It's because if you want, you can take off from every traffic light with full throttle at max acceleration. That's generally what I do. Nothing to see or hear. For a gas motorcycle to do this, they would have to rev the engine to get the rpms up, and pop the clutch and everyone around sees and hears what is going on even before it happens. Who drives a bike this way? Nobody does it all the time or they would get stopped by cops. Yet you can do the equivalent on the Zero all the time. Zero to 60 in 4.8 seconds is MUCH faster than any normal street traffic accelerates, including faster motorcycles usually.

 A couple of times I have pulled up next to a super sport motorcycle at a traffic light. We exchange nods, check for cops. As the light changes, I am out ahead of him immediately. By the time he realizes we were racing and gets his bike into the power band and passes me a hundred yards later, I have reached the speed limit and let off the throttle, and he is way over the speed limit. I try not to repeat this at the next stop light though. LOL.