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[camosoul]

Personally, I think you're being a little unfair on dealerships. What's in selling Zeros for a normal motorcycle dealership? Presumably not much money on the sale, and it's not like they have years of checking desmo valve clearances (or insert service cost of your choice here) to make  money off with Zeros is there? And then they can be stuck dealing with what appears to be a pretty bad run of unreliability issues under warranty. I've been much more impressed with the attitude shown by my dealer than Zero.

It's a bummer that Zero won't work directly with the owner. Bad move for them.

Unfair? $30 to mount and balance a tire?

Dealerships' bread and butter is overcharging for bad ideas that constantly fall apart. Their entire existence is predicated upon selling a product that doesn't work and charging exorbitant amounts of money to fix it. Unfair is me being their personal welfare check.

My position is certainly slanted by the fact that I've never received anything but scowls and huge bills for nothing from dealerships. I can afford it, but why get screwed if you don't have to?

The bottom line. The threat of a reliable bike that needs no maintenance. All they would get is the sale, no constant bilking post-sale. Dealerships want electric to fail. Zero is playing into their hands by failing to back it up themselves. This is why Tesla doesn't play that game.

Zero needs to dump dealerships and go direct, or they're not going to make it. Seems like they're making a combination of the worst decisions they possibly can...

[dkw12002]

I think just the opposite about dealerships. An electric motorcycle is not a do-it-yourself project for most people, who would need a dealer. I think for a motorcycle company to do well they have to have dealers. Kudos to those who can fix things and want to fix things themselves, but I think Zero would like to increase sales as their #1 goal and I don't see that happening without dealers. I think dealers do very well with profit margins on Zero bikes. The problem is they don't sell many bikes. Well, Hollywood Electric probably sells a lot of bikes, but not too many other dealerships do. 

[ultrarnr]

In the first years Zero did sell direct to customers and did not have dealers. If it got them the results they wanted they would not have started a dealer network. Mission seems to be selling direct to customers without dealers as they advertise they deliver each bike personally to the customer. Of course time will tell if any Mission motorcycles ever get dellivered. I have emailed Lightening twice about how they plan to deliver and have not gotten a response.

[walla2]

So the bike arrived in Seattle on Saturday and service called me today.  The pulled logs show no functoning components whatsoever.  They were sent off to Zero for interpretation. 

Don't really like the sound of zero functioning systems.  More updates to follow.

As for the dealer model discussion,  I don't  mind dealers but a small company with a need to impress to succeed model needs to in my opinion go out of their way to follow these problem bikes helping both the owners and the dealers. 

[FialaArms]

I had the same issue with my 2014 Zero FX 5.7.  At around 800 miles it stopped charging, and just clicked repeatedly when you plugged it in, like a faulty relay.  The bms board had been throwing errors, and was replaced, but didn't help the charging issue.  After a few months in the shop..zero sent a new 'ccu' board (charging controller unit) and it has worked fine for the last 200 miles.

Good luck, although at this point I'd request a new bike from Zero, or through the lemon law if they refuse.  Lemons happen, and it should be sent back to zero to be diagnosed and studied. 
 

[jogjengaar]

How did it go for you Walla2? Did the bike get fixed?

I've been in a process with Zero for A YEAR AND A HALF NOW(!!), and my 2012 Zero S still hasn't been fixed!

I started with the order of the 2010 S back in december 2009, and got this in august 2010..
On this the motor broke 3 times, each time after running for about 500km..
I sent the bike back to the Netherlands, and received an offer to buy up for the 2012 in November 2011.
Received this in March 2012 and the first problem started after a week..
I believed the problem was water-intrution somewhere, but Zero ment it was the kickstand, and sent a new switch..
In April 2012 the bike started up by itself(!) without the key in it, and while I was on vacation.
The bike was even possible to ride!
Zero sent a mechanic from The Netherlands to get it fixed in the end of May, and he found moisture in some contacts below the seat..
Shortly after the 12V-310 BMS weatherproofing recall came..
After this the bike was working great for many months, because of a dry summer, automn and winter here in Norway.
In the end of November 2013 problems started again. This time the bike usually started in the morning so I could get to work, but if there was some water on the road, I usually couldn't get home from work..
This was emailed to Zero, and they ment that the problem was caused by the throttle assy..
Received the parts in the end of December, but this didn't help..
In March Zero ment that this could be related to recall SV-ZMC-R-059 (The Glitch), and offered three ways to fix this:
- Drive the bike to the nearest dealer (2000km)
- Send a field mechanic
- Send the bike back to The Netherlands
I left it to Zero to come up with the best solution, since driving 2000km to the nearest dealer was out of the question..
After this I didn't hear anything from Zero again..
In June (a year ago!), I startet testing by my own what actually caused the problem.
After washing the bike with a sponge and a bucket of water and the bike didn't start afterwards..
I had allways ment that the problem was water-intrution, and I started applying water with a syringe around the bike, and tried to start the bike in between..
If it didn't start I had to wait till it got dried out, and then check further on the bike..
My conclusion after more than 50 hours was that applying water to any of the orange cables made the bike didn't start after a while..
In august 2014 I got an email that they got a dealer in Norway that could handle the case for me.
The only problem was that they didn't have the proper training to do anything with the bike, and it was just in the middle of January that I could deliver the bike there to get it fixed..
In mid April they still hadn't done anything with the bike, except to wash it.. They had to get a new computer to get the logg from the bike..
In May I got a mesage from the dealer that they had pulled the logg (without any errors), upgraded the firmware and that the bike was ready to get picked up..
I said that that didn't help much, because the problem was water-intrution, and again instructed them to do the same as I did over a year ago, and apply water to it and check if it started.. In the end of May I got a message that after a day of testing, they got it to not start (it looks like the cables are brittle and that it takes some time before the water gets trough..)..
3 weeks ago I got an "offer" that Zero could replace the motor "as a one-time-offer of goodwill", since they ment that the bike was out of warranty (bullshit!),
but if anything happened with the bike after this I was on my own,
or I could buy up to a new 2014 SR for 5000€. This was after some weeks reduced to 2000€, but after all the work I've done, and time I spent trying to get a solution, and the time I've been without the bike, I'm not interested in paying more money for a bike that I've allready have paid more for than the new 2015 SR costs.
I've now given them till Tuesday 2015-06-30 12:00 CET to pay me back all the money I've paid for the 2010 and up to 2012.
I don't expect them to do so, but after this I can start the next process with the European Consumer Network and lawyers..

Meanwhile I'm gathering as much information I can about others having the same problems with not reaching trough with their clames to Zero, and about the problems with water-intrution like I had. I see in other posts on this forum that others have had the same problems as me, so Zero has been aware of this problem before I told them about it, regarding that they have said that they didn't hear about this before.. :-p
I'm also preparing to go the media/Socialmedia, but that would ruin the market for Zero here in Norway, so I'm not interested in doing this at this point..

I used to LOVE riding the Zero S, but the last year has been a pain in the ass..

If you have had this kind of problems, please send me an PM!
Toghether we have to believe we are stronger!!

[Cortezdtv]

Sorry but you are crazy for not taking a 16000 bike for 2000..... Talk about holding onto something so long you get the short end of the stick....

 You have a old did bike and they're willing to make it right and you will not let Them


Every model year 12 zero owner would be over joyed to trade their bike in for a 14; I'm stunned you think that getting your money back is a better option that everyone you and including zero knows isn't going to happen ur money is long gone....

If you really wanted your money back take the fucking bike and sell it.....duh.  The sr used is worth almost 2x what you paid for you 2010...


Edit: for brammofan because he thinks I'm offensive because I called you dumb for not taking the deal sorry....

[Brammofan]

Cortez - your reply is offensive an uncalled-for. Let's try to keep this forum a welcoming community, not a place for personal attacks.

[Cortezdtv]

Sorry you feel that way but there are plenty of people who have spend 2x 3x as much as he as on a zero and have less to show for it than him, zero is willing to give him a new bike for 2000. What more do you expect from a company? I don't know any other motorcycle company that would replace a 4 year old bike with a 2 year old bike and when that one unfortunately has the same proplem offer to give him another new bike.... I wish I would ride my bikes into huge storms and every time it stops working is get a new bike for a small fee.


This was not personal attach, I'm calling it now I see it. I personally own more died 2012 zeros than everyone who posted in this thread..... I think that makes my opinion here valid; sorry if you think it's harsh.....



1 they are not going to give money from 2009 back.... No company would, that's like asking for interest too
2. They offered service as best they could at the time having no dealer in your area(no one besides the factory ie a handful of people know to work on the 2012 s bikes, dealers don't know how to work on them, and they aren't going to get trained on how to)
3. They offered you a new bike... Sure sounds like they did the right thing to.... Twice.....

[Richard230]

Knowing that electric motorcycles can be a little upset at times while riding in the rain or while being washed, I tend to keep my bike as dry as possible.  There are lots of "waterless" car wash products on the market and I use them to clean my Zero (especially with our drought in CA).  So far my 2014 Zero has been running perfectly.  However, I will admit to not riding in the rain or on wet streets if I can avoid it - which is easy to do as I am retired and can plan my trips for pleasant weather.

My daughter never washes the 2012 Zero that I gave her and it is still running fine - other than an occasional "glitch" once or twice a year.   

I think Zero really needs to better address waterproofing on their motorcycle electrical connections.  But I imagine this is really difficult on a motorcycle.  While riding in the rain, water gets everywhere - especially where the sun don't shine.   

[Cortezdtv]

Also who have you been talking to at zero who did you tell you want your money back? Your dealer isn't going to portray the message like your paragraph does. If you are only talking to customer service that may be the other issue, they have clout but let's face it Arron is given a budget to cover service on the newer bikes first then the older bikes. They are clearly trying to get you into a more stable and reliable bike.

I don't think Arron has the power to even issue you a refund, customer service can't even proscess and credit card.... There is no way Arron has a company checkbook he can just write you a refund check, no that comes from the finance department and honestly I have never heard of them giving a refund, so I don't think it has ever happened.

If you want out pay the 2000 take the sr and sell it to the dealer

Right now you stated you lost more than a 2015sr costs so you have paid for your 2009 bike basically 2 times. Roughly 18000 to make it a easy number.... So if you got lucky and they refunded you you would get maybe 8000 back.... Still 10k in The hole.
If you pay the 2000 you would have spend 20000 and sell your bike back to the dealer for 15000 you only loose 5k not 10k.... Your choice

You still lost a whole lot less money than you would have and you got to ride a new sr, which if you do ride it you won't get ride of it.....

[jogjengaar]

Let me transfer this to buying a TV:
I buy a new plasma TV for $1000 in 2010.
This breaks down 3 times and you trade in the 2010 for the 2012 LCD for $300 (original price $1300).
After one week you can't use the remote control and have to stand up and press on the TV to change channel.. The seller tries to fix it..
After another year you can't use the remote again, and the maker of the TV says that they don't think they will be able to fix it,
and gives you the option to buy the latest LCD (original price $1200) for another $300..
Would you do that?

I'm aware that the consumer laws are different around the world, but here in Europe they are quite strong and uniform.
If a seller (Zero directly), can't deliver the expected quality of a product they can get the chance to fix it, replace it with a similar product, or get you the money back.
I've been clear with Zero from the first emails to the US, that I intended to use the bike in the winter, and they ment it would be a good thing, the bike would get get properly tested under extreme conditions.
With the 2010 model I didn't have any problems with water-intrusion (the problem here was the brushes wich got burned out).

If I only could drive the bike when its dry, I think I could have used the bike 4 days last summer.. 

[Justin Andrews]

Would you do that?

If I liked the TV? Hell yes, in a heartbeat. It would be an very good deal.

[jogjengaar]

..And for how long would you continue to do that?
It's not a leasing-deal I bought..

[Justin Andrews]

Its a fair bit cheaper than taking the hit on the depreciation, so I'd happily do it indefinitely.