Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[rollandelliott]

Just curious will the zero motorcycles allow a very small gas generator like the Honda EU100oi which holds about one gallon of gas to charge bike as you ride it. they go for about $500 on ebay used
Honda’s EU 1000i generator produces up to 1,000 watts of power using 120V current. This is standard for generators in this class. A single gallon of fuel will allow the generator to provide continuous power to electronics and smaller appliances for up to 8.3 hours, easily outlasting much of the competition. During its 8.3 hours of continuous operation, an included inverter keeps power stable enough to charge laptops, tablets, and smartphones, all without power fluctuations that might otherwise damage the equipment. At a rated weight of just below 29 pounds, the EU1000i is easily Honda’s most portable model currently available.

and these generators are seriously quiet, you can easily talk to someone standing right next to it

think of this idea as the chevy volt equivalent of a motorcycle?

[ultrarnr]

What model of Zero are you thinking about? The S, DS and SR have 1300 watt internal chargers so a 1000 watt generator is not going to be enough. Also know that the 1300 watt charger may use up to 1500 watts at times.

[protomech]

In theory it would be possible to use an onboard generator to create a serial hybrid, similarly to the Chevy Volt.

In practice, you'll run into several issues:

1. The EU1000i is too small to charge the bike. It is rated at 1000W max, 900W continuous. The S bikes have a 1.3 kW onboard charger, and generally speaking you will need to oversize the generator to ensure that it can supply the initial startup current draw.
2. The Zero bike will disable the motor controller when the charger is being powered. This is to ensure you don't attempt to ride off while still plugged in.
3. The 1.3 kW onboard charger is too small to continuously power the bike while it is being operated, except at very low speeds. 35 mph operation requires around 2.5 kW, 55 mph operation requires around 6.5 kW, and 70 mph operation requires around 10 kW. If the charging restriction in #2 was removed and a sufficiently large generator was used, then you would extend the range of the bike somewhat: roughly 60% at 35 mph, 15% at 55 mph, and 10% at 70 mph.

A proper serial hybrid will probably need to start with a ground-up design.

[zerotracer]

Maybe just install a small gasoline auxiliary engine, so the electric motor does not have to work so much
and then it will give a much longer range.

Maybe a solar or battery powered hub engine on the front Wheel to make it easier for main engine in the back   

Maybe try to Mount a Copenhagen Wheel on the front of the Zero and see what happens 

[zerotracer]

Check out the Wheel here : www.superpedestrian.com

sales begins fall 2014

Price is 799 dollars

But certainly a interesting idea to mount it on a Zero as the front wheel

[dkw12002]

I ride e-bikes as well, but I don't think the Copenhagen wheel would work on the Zero. Not nearly powerful enough. You could add a hub motor to the front wheel, but you would have to have a large battery pack and controller to put somewhere, plus it would be expensive...$2,000 minimal and with all the weight and no pedals on a Zero, it wouldn't get you very far or go uphill..at least not with any of the existing bicycle motors. They would all overheat and stop. I think the idea of a gas motor auxiliary power would work though to enable you to limp home. I wouldn't want to do that to my lovely electric bike, but it could be done.

[rollandelliott]

I have a 2010ds bike, just thinking of ways to increase range.
I have the honda 2000 generator, but it's probably around 50 pounds and honestly I dont' really like the idea of using gas to power my bike. I'll probably eventually buy the nissan leaf batteries and try to hook them to my bike, but it will take days of research so I'm dreddign it a bit.

[krash7172]

As Protomech pointed out, the electrics might not allow you to charge while riding, but it would allow you to charge while stopped. Not a bad option in an emergency, or planning a trip longer than you can make it on batteries alone. Worst case scenario is to stop and charge. How many miles on 1 gallon of gas? 50?

Interesting idea in my opinion. Imagine saddle bags that held a generator and a couple gallons of gas. Removable range extender option kinda like the BMW i3. I'm sure Zero has thought of this...

[protomech]

At the generator's most efficient point, it can produce around 6700 Wh per gallon of gas consumed.

At the wall, the 2013 Zero bikes will use between 85 Wh/mile (city) to 170 Wh/mile (highway).

Equivalent MPG is around 40 to 80 MPG.

[zerotracer]

I´m thinking of buying a older Zero, to experimenting a bit with.
But more range requires more energy in some way, or another type of engine that is more efficient.

I think the future is more kWh. capacity in the battery with a new technology, same battery weight and a new type of engine.
A power generator as in the BMW i3 is not necessary if you have enough range on the battery.

The biggest problem now is weight and battery capacity. A motorbike there is weighing more than 225 kg. is heavy to move around.

[protomech]

A power generator is not required if you can charge quickly at charge points conveniently sited along to your route, and you have plenty of range to get from one to the next with some fun riding in between.

I feel like 12 kWh as in Mission R, Zero S ZF14.2 is just barely not enough. 15 kWh is about right; that gives 100 miles of highway range, 150 miles of lower-speed riding.

Charging from 20% to 80% in 20 minutes is fast enough, IMO. That's 180 highway miles/hour or 270 lower-speed miles/hour, pretty close to Tesla's Model S charge rate (340 miles/hour at lower but at much lower power requirements (30 kW instead of 90-135 kW).

Zero is shipping a 12 kWh bike today, at 450 pounds. Mission plans to ship their R sport bike later this year, 12 kWH at 490 pounds and 15 kWh at 510 pounds.

Those are heavy bikes, no mistake; my GS500F weighed about 440 pounds wet, and my 2012 Zero S is much lighter @ 340 pounds. But weight will come down in time, and there are plenty of bikes that weigh much, much more than the 15 kWh Mission bike.

IMO the big technical issues today are cost and rollout/standardization of the charging network, not battery capacity or charge acceptance rates of the larger packs. Initially quick charging networks will be quite sparse, so that a small bike that can charge very quickly will not be useful because it cannot move from one to the other. Eventually maybe it would be useful to have a small bike with 80 miles of low-speed riding that can be charged in 10 minutes from a QC station (i.e. a battery pack optimized for charge kW/kg instead of kWh/kg), but we're not there yet.

[ultrarnr]

I think there is always going to be a need for charging with a small generator whether that be a little or a lot in places where the electrical grid just doesn't reach. For example not all campgrounds or forest parking areas have electricity.

I have a Yamaha EF2000iS inverter generator. Rated at 1600 watts, max is 2000. Weighs 44 lbs dry and about 52 lbs with 1.1 gallons of gas. It will run about 1 hr, 45 minutes on a tank of fuel while charging a Zero SR 14.2 (with Power Tank). The charge level was 3% at the start and 23% when the generator ran out of gas. At 52 lbs this could be strapped to the back of the bike. Whether this is practical or not just depends on where you are trying to go and how much it means to you to get there.

[trikester]

I posted several years ago about back country camping in Utah for one week with what was then my first and only Zero Bike - a 2010 DS. I also had a 1600 watt gas generator. I would ride the dirt roads early in the day and then return to camp where I would park the bike about 50 feet from camp and start charging it using the generator. I would settle down on the shady side of my truck and enjoy the rest of the afternoon while the bike was being charged for the next day's riding.

I would put the generator in ECO mode so that when the bike was fully charged and the charger cut back its load, the generator would slow down and I would know by the sound that the bike was done charging. Otherwise there would be no remote indicator of the bike charge being complete. Now, with the newer Zeros, an iPod operating on the Bluetooth could keep me abreast of the state of charge while relaxing in camp. If I did this again, with my 2013 FX, I could ride a lot farther in the day and also monitor the iPod while recharging in camp.

Check out the camp photo. This was a very fun week BTW.

Trikester