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Author Topic: Twice the highway range on a 2014 than a 2012 - check out the math...  (Read 1461 times)

Electric Terry

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Ok so did you ever want one more reason to upgrade to the 2014?  How about the efficiency of the motor at highway speeds?

Now it's the same for the 2013 but you can get more battery in the 2014.

So the 2014 + PT has 171 miles city range, 131 miles commuting avg at 55 mph, 116 miles commuting avg at 70 mph, 106 miles at a steady 55 mph, and worst case scenario going all out the whole time, you can still go 88 miles.

How does that compare to the top of the line 2012 ZF9?

Well you might say that the 2012 goes 63 miles on the highway at 70.  But that is the highway commuting number.  They never published the pure 70 mph number.  And to truly see the beauty of the 2014 with powertank, it's important to see this difference.

Ok lets see if we can find that number using all the available data and formulas we have
We know 114 miles city and 63 miles highway commuting.  That's all that was listed way back then (like it was the dark ages or something lol)

Ok so the formula is: 70 mph Highway Commuting Range = 1 / [0.5/(70 mph steady-state range) + 0.5/(EPA UDDS range)]

63 miles  = 1/[(0.5/114) + (0.5/x)]
63 = 1/(.004386 + .5/x)
1=63(.004386 + .5/x)
1=.2763 +31.5/x
1x = .2763x + 31.5
.7237x = 31.5
x=43.5

someone check my quick math there but I think that is right
So the 2012 ZF9 has 43.5 miles range at a steady 70 mph (I'm sure this is measured in an upright position, and you can make it 40-50% higher in a full tuck)

The 2014 14.2 has 88 miles range at a steady 70 mph.  (I'm sure you can increase this 50% by riding in a race type position too) Instead of using about 15kw to maintain speed you could perhaps get that down to 12, 11 or maybe even 10kw if you wore spandex.

So the 2014 can go OVER TWICE as far on the highway as the 2012.  Richard230 you're the perfect person to ask as you've ridden both bikes.  Have you ever done a steady 70 mph run from full to empty on both?  or something similar?  Love to hear your estimates.

Twice the highway range!

Point is, where does this efficiency improvement come from??

The battery is for sure not twice as big, only about 63%.  Where does the other 37% range improvement come from?

Is it a higher voltage that is more efficient? Perhaps a little, but not that much.
Is it better aerodynamics? They look pretty similar, but definitely not significant either.

I believe the biggest gain is in the motor design.  Less heat is both created and wasted being expelled by the shaft driven fan on the 2012.

This is part of the reason the efficiency difference increases the faster you go on the 2014.  Because the faster you go on the 2012, the more energy is spent spinning the shaft driven fan and expelling heat!

But less heat being created overall has to be the most significant factor.  For those of us that know chargers, the heatsink on an IP67 charger has to be huge to dissipate the same charging heat as a tiny fan on a much smaller charger that has an open design and is not water proof (case in point look at DocBass's Meanwell 2500's).  So for the 2012 motor to be open and pull that much air, to dissipate the same heat on a 2014 the motor heatsink would have to be almost as big as the battery module.  This says to me it's creating less heat to begin with.  A LOT LESS!!  And this means more of the battery watt hours are going to move the bike vs heating the motor.

There's a guy at Zero named Ryan from Canada and everyone who owns, rides and loves the 2014 so much should one day aspire to meet and thank this guy for your increased highway range!  Now if only a guy there named Matt B, would fall in love with aerodynamic design we'd be all set. ;)

There's a good chance with a good set of Vetter fairings on a stock 2014 Zero, you could see perhaps 170-180 miles highway range and very likely over 200 miles range at 55 mph between charges.  :D

I've gone 240 miles between charges from Santa Barbara to Santa Cruz twice last year with a little bit left each time.  That's with 18 kwh and the Vetter fairing on a 2012.  I'm just thinking what I could have done if it would have been possible to have one of  "Ryan's motors"  in the bike when I did that!

Point being, for those of us that have a 2012, perhaps it's time to let someone who is curious but unsure about electric motorcycles to buy your bike used at a lower price and catch the electric motorcycle bug as well, and for you to upgrade to a 2014 with the potential to upgrade later with the powertank.  This would be a win win for everybody!  It's really hard not to justify this, am I right? :)
« Last Edit: April 04, 2014, 12:24:25 AM by offthegrid »
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protomech

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Re: Twice the highway range on a 2014 than a 2012 - check out the math...
« Reply #1 on: April 04, 2014, 12:50:02 AM »

Yes, that's right. Zero rates the 2012 S ZF9 at 43.5 miles steady 70 mph, but doesn't directly list the 70 mph range.

Double the highway range in 2 years. Not bad. At the $14k price point - 2012 S ZF9 vs average of ZF8.5 and ZF11.4 range - range improves from 43.5 miles to 61.5 miles, or 41% improvement.

I think a lot of the highway range improvement is due to poor motor efficiency at 70 mph.

For the 2012 bike, Zero made significant modifications to a Motenergy ME0913 AC motor, rated at 5000 RPM maximum. The stock bike spins the motor at about 4600 RPM at 70 mph, up to 5900 RPM at 90 mph. I think this is a very inefficient regime for the motor, and that efficiency loss is represented as additional heat generated in the motor that requires the shaft-driven fan.

Here's the power consumed by the two bikes to travel at 70 mph:
2012: 8 kWh * 70 mph / 43.5 miles = 12.8 kW
2014: 12.5 kWh * 70 mph / 88 miles = 9.9 kW

No way is the shaft-driven fan responsible for 3 kW power loss.
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Richard230

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Re: Twice the highway range on a 2014 than a 2012 - check out the math...
« Reply #2 on: April 04, 2014, 03:19:27 AM »

When my bike was an 11.4 model, I rode it around just like I did my 2012 ZF9 S, which was 100 pounds lighter.  Most of my riding was under 50 mph and the 2014 S seemed to have little, if any, advantage when it came to range.  To get to my daughter's home (38 miles away and about 10 miles at 55 mph on the freeway), as an example, my 2012 S required 5 "bars" to get there, while my 11.4 S ran the battery pack down to an indicated 45%.  Now that it has the power tank, it shows 55% when I reach her home, riding exactly at the same speeds as before.

However, I agree that at 60 mph and above, the 2014 model definitely uses less power than my 2012 S did.
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NoiseBoy

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Re: Twice the highway range on a 2014 than a 2012 - check out the math...
« Reply #3 on: April 04, 2014, 05:55:22 PM »

But Terry, I don't have any highways here.  I have to find another excuse to upgrade!  If I can ever sell my 2012 that is (which I doubt).
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Electric Terry

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Re: Twice the highway range on a 2014 than a 2012 - check out the math...
« Reply #4 on: April 07, 2014, 12:26:33 AM »

But Terry, I don't have any highways here.  I have to find another excuse to upgrade!  If I can ever sell my 2012 that is (which I doubt).

I just saw your island! Yes I can see how you might not have a lot of highways or a need to have a bike that does 102 mph.  Well, let me take that back, even on a short road we all sometimes "need" to at least have the option to go that fast.  I mean it might be necessary to outrun a pack of cheetas or something.  You can never have too many options these days.  There, escaping wild cheetas, there's another excuse for you! ;)
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NoiseBoy

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Re: Twice the highway range on a 2014 than a 2012 - check out the math...
« Reply #5 on: April 07, 2014, 12:54:48 AM »

I do often come across Astons, Ferraris and tuned odds and sods. So acceleration to demonstrate that EV's are a force to be reckoned with. Would Zero put a high torque gearing option on the SR I wonder?
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Electric Terry

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Re: Twice the highway range on a 2014 than a 2012 - check out the math...
« Reply #6 on: April 07, 2014, 01:29:46 AM »

I do often come across Astons, Ferraris and tuned odds and sods. So acceleration to demonstrate that EV's are a force to be reckoned with. Would Zero put a high torque gearing option on the SR I wonder?

Quite easily, you could replace the 30 tooth front sprocket for a 28 tooth or perhaps even a 25 tooth sprocket.  This would give you amazing acceleration and lower the top speed to 85 mph (102*25/30).  Probably plenty for you and everyone else for that matter and make the SR accelerate even faster.  It is already scary fast.  Making it even faster...well...do this at your own risk. ;)
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NoiseBoy

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Re: Twice the highway range on a 2014 than a 2012 - check out the math...
« Reply #7 on: April 07, 2014, 01:32:39 AM »

That is the beauty of the mode switch. An ICE with that power would be miserable to ride in cold wet conditions, not so the SR.
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