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[NoiseBoy]

Whatever is going on with the charging program, the bike is running really well - especially on the freeway where the power doesn't seem to drop like a rock the way it did on my 2012 S.  And when riding at 30 mph, I can really believe that claim of a 170 mile range - not that I ever plan to test it.  That would be over 5 hours of riding at slow speeds and I don't think I could take that.   

Definitely seems like overkill for city operation - but couriers that drive all day long could probably use that range.

Or for fleets that don't have charging capacity for all of their vehicles every night.

[dc5dd]

So what is going on? Is the Zero app exaggerating about the battery pack's kWh capacity? Could my Kill A Watt be funky? Or is something else going on? My money is on the Zero computer not calculating the pack's kWh correctly. Maybe the voltage change while charging and discharging is confusing its calculations?

This is a guess but I would say it is the algorithm for calculating charge must have some bugs in it especially with the extra power tank.  Probably a firmware upgrade needed in the future.  I believe Richard is accurate with his monitoring of the charging but whether the problem is with the Kill A watt or the S is anyone guess. 

Richard you should plug the Kill A watt into a known appliance and rule that out as the cause then you would know if it is the S or your monitoring.

[Richard230]

It might be the Kill A Watt as lately it has been going blank when I plug it in and needs to be pulled out of the wall and reconnected to get it to work again.  The 8 hour charging time is pretty close and I kept checking to be sure that the bike was charging all of the time.  I think the estimate of 10.8 kWh might be much closer to reality than 8.47 kWh.

[dc5dd]

It might be the Kill A Watt as lately it has been going blank when I plug it in and needs to be pulled out of the wall and reconnected to get it to work again.  The 8 hour charging time is pretty close and I kept checking to be sure that the bike was charging all of the time.  I think the estimate of 10.8 kWh might be much closer to reality than 8.47 kWh.

That still doesn't explain the charging up to 98 and 99 percent.

[Richard230]

I just rode around for a few miles today and dropped the battery pack down to 92%.  I then plugged it in for an hour and it has stopped charging and shows 98% charge.  I am going to just leave it plugged in without messing with anything and see what happens.  This did not happen before the "power tank" had been hooked up to the system and my bike received the latest firmware programming.  Perhaps Zero's new firmware was modified to cut back on charging up to 100%, or maybe it could have something to do with the extra battery capacity tricking the BMS or charger in some way.   

It occurs to me that installing a brand new battery after running the original batteries for 15 cycles might have something to do with the odd charging % numbers.  I do note that both the voltage and kWh shown by the app when fully charged are slightly greater than they were just after the power tank was installed.

[NoiseBoy]

Sounds like the bike just needs time to 'learn' about its new battery.

[Richard230]

I just ordered a new Kill O Watt.  I note that my charger is running very close to the gadget's 1500 watt maximum output and my wall voltage of 122 volts is greater than its 115 volt specification.  But for $20, I guess I will give it another try.  I think my old device lost its marbles. 

[Richard230]

Whatever is going on with my charging display, it can't be too bad.  The charger shut off at an indicated 98% yesterday.  This morning it was still reading 98%.  Four hours later it said 100% and that is where it is staying.   

[oobflyer]

My Kil-O-Watt meter is also flaky - it seems that the liquid crystal display is sometimes missing segments - if I push on it the display fluctuates.

As far as the delay between 98% and 100% charge - could this be similar to the "Finish phase/maintenance mode" of the 2012 charging sequence? My bike doesn't tell me the exact percentage of charge,  but I 've noticed that even though the 'bars' on the fuel gauge show a full charge, the BMS LEDs are still tracking across, as if still charging. The LED on the charger shows a flashing or solid green light at this point - indicating "Finish phase" or "maintenance mode" (presumably for cell balancing) for awhile before the BMS LED lights finally quit tracking across to indicate that the charge is complete.

[BSDThw]

I don't have a smart-phone but if I compare my 2013FX to the 2012DS the charging is quite different.
"Sometimes" at +3°C the 2013 don't start charging - if I return later it is charging . Certainly the chill-factor can lower the temp but when the batteries are used they should be warmed too.

I don't see the SOC like you - but if I replug my FX when the battery is full it start again and didn't lower the current in the next minutes like my 2012 will do - but it charge a significant amount of energy till it stops.
I have to mention it is still cold here and maybe the behavior will change with warmer weather.

Since 2013 I think we have a new µC HW in the bike controlling the chargers.

Does somebody use additional Delta-qs with the 2013/14?
How do this chargers work on your bikes (SOC...)? as much as I know the Delta-q has more charging intelligence integrated.
 

[Richard230]

I just returned from a 95 mile ride, which ran the battery pack down to 25% or 2.8 kWh.  While I took the roads less traveled, I am really happy with the performance of the bike and the power tank option.  It is really nice to be close to the Santa Cruz Mountains, the Pacific Coast Highway, tight one-lane roads and redwood trees.   

[NoiseBoy]

I'd love to see some pics of the bike on the PCH if you get a chance Richard.  Memories of a childhood holiday.   I will drive it again eventually.

[Richard230]

I'd love to see some pics of the bike on the PCH if you get a chance Richard.  Memories of a childhood holiday.   I will drive it again eventually.

Yesterday was the perfect day for such a photo, but wouldn't you know it, I forgot to bring my camera.       However, I will keep your request in mind and post a photo or two when the conditions are right (Zero + zero fog).   

[ultrarnr]

Richard230,

It sounds like your Power Tank and main battery are playing well together. Do you remember how many miles you had on your S when you had the Power Tank installed? I had over 1,000 miles on my SR when I had the Power Tank installed and right now the two batteries are not playing well together and Zero is trying hard to figure out why. My main battery pack had 38 charge cycles at the time of Power Tank installation. What I am wondering is if it is possible when both battery packs are connected for one to discharge at a slightly faster or slower rate than the other because one has been in use for awhile and the other battery is new. If so this could be an explaination for my Contactor Error problem.  Zero has said that both batteries are not being charged to the same level yet despite this once charged the Contactor Error message goes away. Until of course you go out and ride. If you take a short trip such as 3-4 miles there is no problem. But when you go out for longer rides (typically 30+ miles) and turn the bike off you get a Contactor Error when you turn it back on prior to charging it. Maybe I am way off base here but right now this is not an easy problem to solve. Thanks for any insight.

[Richard230]

Ultranar, I was thinking the same thing.  Fortunately, I had not ridden my bike all that long before the power tank was connected to the system.  I had ridden about 650 miles and I believe my number of recharges was around 15 to 18.  Installing a brand new battery into a used pack would logically seem to cause some confusion for the BMS, but I am really just armchair guessing, as I have no idea how the BMS really functions when individual battery modules start showing different voltages, or remaining kWh, after being used for a while during a ride.  Perhaps the system goes nuts when the balancing voltage, or differential power remaining, between packs goes beyond a certain value? 

I sure hope Zero can figure out a solution for you, as the "power tank" is a nice option and was well worth the extra money for me.  I am sure that Zero want to be sure that the power tank is on firm engineering ground before selling any more of them.

It will be interesting to see what Motorcycle.com has to say about the SR with the power tank (factory installed) that they are evaluating right now.  I suspect that once they finish their review that test bike will be passed along to Cycle World or Motorcycle Consumer News
later this year for them to review also.  No doubt Zero would not like the magazines to have the same problem as you are having.