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[trikester]

It may be the higher internal resistance in the cold batteries that is killing our range by dissipating more power in the battery itself.

I did a short FX ride yesterday similar to others I have done at warmer temps. I used 135 kW/Mi. I've never used more than 113 kW/Mi before on any ride except one ride in deep sand used 129 kW/Mi.

So that isn't just the battery holding less capacity but it's also causing me to use more energy/Mi due to higher IR losses in the cold battery. Otherwise I would have used the usual amount of kW/Mi but would have had lower range due to capacity. MY guess is that it is a combination of both but resistance being dominate.

The upside? The power dissapitated in the battery will warm it up.  Walking the bike back home will also warm us up. 

Trikester

[Le Z Turbo]

Great explanation, exactly what I'm feeling.
Laurent

[Le Z Turbo]

Laurent, can you post photos of your bike with the hand protection, windshield ect?

Si I've done some pictures this morning, I'm gonna put it in the more related thread http://electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=3315.0

[Justin Andrews]

I tried charging my battery to 90% last night, and then doing the remaining 10% charge today prior to riding.

That massively improved cold weather range by heating the battery up during charging rather than discharging. I don't know how good this is for the long term health of the battery however.

[Le Z Turbo]

I think I have seen somewhere regarding the LiPo batteries of RC models that they don't like changing electrical direction too fast. Meaning you have to wait a little after charging before discharging and wait a little for chemical components to settle down after ridding before charging.
But I don't have a clear study about this affirmation so I can't say for sure. And what about Regen braking and then throttle up again ?
Laurent

[protomech]

I tried charging my battery to 90% last night, and then doing the remaining 10% charge today prior to riding.

That massively improved cold weather range by heating the battery up during charging rather than discharging. I don't know how good this is for the long term health of the battery however.

It's probably slightly better for the health than allowing it to charge to 100% and then sit for an age.

You should plug it in overnight and let it balance occasionally, though. Maybe once every 10 cycles.

[Justin Andrews]

I tried charging my battery to 90% last night, and then doing the remaining 10% charge today prior to riding.

That massively improved cold weather range by heating the battery up during charging rather than discharging. I don't know how good this is for the long term health of the battery however.

It's probably slightly better for the health than allowing it to charge to 100% and then sit for an age.

You should plug it in overnight and let it balance occasionally, though. Maybe once every 10 cycles.

Good point.

Though I rarely leave it charged for very long (usually only overnight), as its my main bike for commuting.

[Biff]

I tried charging my battery to 90% last night, and then doing the remaining 10% charge today prior to riding.

That massively improved cold weather range by heating the battery up during charging rather than discharging. I don't know how good this is for the long term health of the battery however.

The charger on the Zero S and DS is directly below the battery, so, when charging it warms up the battery to some extent as well as the internal resistance of the battery warming itself up.  Running a warm battery is not bad for it.

As far as I know there is no truth to the "wait a while after charging before discharging" statement that Le Z Turbo may have seen.

-ryan

[NoiseBoy]

I think that is the case with LIPO just because they run very hot and you shouldnt charge a battery that is still hot from discharging.

If batteries really didn't like fast changes in current flow direction, regen wouldn't be very popular on electric vehicles.

[Le Z Turbo]

If batteries really didn't like fast changes in current flow direction, regen wouldn't be very popular on electric vehicles.

Good point indeed.

[Robswheels]

Hi, I'm from the Netherlands and I drive also below zero :-) Celsius with my DS 2013.
I also see this decrease of power and range in these conditions but I can still make it to work 58 kilometres where I can recharge.
I hope the next DS model has the features of the SR!!!

For protection I use Corrosion X for the first time this winter because I had heard good reviews about it.
You can spray it on every surface and electrical parts (except tires and brakes!!!)
It is a thin layer and I chose it because I wanted to protect the Alu.Motor but not take hours to clean it after the winter.
With the other brands mostly sticky stuff I wonder if you can get it of the Motor anyway.
So far I see no corrosion on any parts so I have high hopes.

[Le Z Turbo]

Corrosion X looks nice, do you have this brand in Netherland ?  I've never seen it in France, we have Rustol OWATROL here but not sure it"s the same effect.
Laurent

[ColoPaul]

I know, it's not motorcycle data.  Interesting nonetheless.  Note the e-car people use heaters & defrosters which use a fair amount of battery.

http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1089160_nissan-leaf-chevy-volt-range-loss-in-winter-new-data-from-canada

[Le Z Turbo]

Great report, thanks for the link !
Laurent

[oobflyer]

I know this is an old thread, but I also lost significant range/power while riding in the winter on both my 2012 and my 2015 Zero bikes. After doing some research I found out that the battery chemistry that Zero uses is THE MOST sensitive to cold temperatures of all Li-ion batteries. They are also the most energy dense. This makes sense for most motorcycle riders that only ride in good weather. I ride year-round, so I notice it every year.
My '15 SR range drops from 100 mi/charge in the summer to about 80 mi/charge in the winter once the temperatures drop below 40F.