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[benswing]

I looks like:
   - minor issues (changing a part, solving a minor glitch) are ok
   - major issues (implying moving the bike, or replacing it) are not managed
   - some US customers had very bad experiences, as well as European one (3 months without any news, then some bogus discussions)

FYI, I had a major issue when I first bought my bike and Zero took care of it.  It took them some time to fix the issue, but they resolved it within a reasonable amount of time.  I actually expected more challenges since this is such a new industry and there is no knowledge base out there for new dealers.  They have to learn on the fly and Zero is a company that is growing fast, which is difficult to manage.  Not to make excuses for them, but some of the statements on this thread imply that they are universally bad at dealing with major issues, and they have a good track record with some or most riders.

[nicktulloh]

Sure managing Zero or being a dealer is not easy. But I think life and business should be built around principles : your deliver what you promise, you do not sell a broken product and if your product is faulty, you make your best efforts to fix it or you get significant penalties !

I've seen nowhere in Zero's advertising that their bikes are only for an elite ready to fix their bike themselves, or pay problems out of the pocket. To the contrary, I read "hassle free" "no service needed" "high quality". Promising the impossible then explaining that you can't deliver is just not an acceptable way of doing business...

Maybe it's just frame of reference.

I've been riding English motorcycles for 41 years, my frame of reference may be quite different from yours.

Maybe it's just the vocal minority.

These guys seem pretty happy with the service after problems arose ... http://electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=2806.msg16558#new

These things are high tech vehicles on the cutting edge. Anyone who takes from the Zero ads anything else, is deluded.

[WindRider]

I rode a 12 DS 6500 miles this season and it's charger failed.   Zero and the local dealer replaced it under warranty at no cost to me in less than a week. 

That was the only problem that I had with the bike.   

It was a better ownership experience than I have had from a couple of other more mainstream motorcycle brands and it exceeded my expectations in terms of reliability and dependability.   

[fractalsource]

In early October 2013, I bought a Zero FX. - 2.8 - Demo.
I quickly realized I would like to have more "range."
So I bought another battery and a "quick charger."
Now it's a 5.7
I found out the battery the bike came with was faulty. 
I waited a couple weeks to get a replacement.
Then, I found out the battery I had, will not take a charge under 36 degrees. Great excuse to bring it indoors for charging.
My kickstand is bent, to where the bike leans way sideways. It's  covered under warranty, I'm waiting on that.
All said.
The bike is one cool gadget.
I ride it like I stole it - and plan to modify it - to charge on the fly - with a snow mobile alternator, or something along that line.
I realize this company is having issues. But HIGH FIVE to them for getting the ball rolling in the right direction.
I'm patient and I like the Zero electric dirt bike!
I'll keep y'all updated on my experience. But for now, its all smiles for now!

[ZeroLover]

Noiseboy : the goal is to have these unacceptable issues solved quickly, by any possible means :
  - Level 1 is talking to dealers - we did this, no results.
  - Level 2 is sending messages to Zero - same, no results. Level 3 is seeking external help - consumer association, govt homologation authorities, specialized press so that they have the full information (ongoing) and now about critical issues. Fortunately some of the clients concerned have very good connections
  - Level 4 is court (probably the easiest & more direct way).

But totally agree that levels 1+2 should have solved the case, and Zero should be aware that for an innovative bike with a very reduced service network, they should never let customer alone with their issues for months. Which is exactly what they do for now ! Serving customer is not about helping on minor issues and ignoring unlucky customer with complex cases (which happen on a marker with no service network, no secondhand market).

[nicktulloh]

 
 Level 3 is seeking external help - consumer association, govt homologation authorities, specialized press so that they have the full information (ongoing) and now about critical issues. Fortunately some of the clients concerned have very good connections

1. Which consumer association?

2. Government homologation authorities? What are those and how would they help?

3. Clients? Clients of whom?


 

- Level 4 is court (probably the easiest & more direct way). 

4. If you think court is "direct" or "easy" then I can only assume that you have never been to court


I am beginning to find this thread objectionable. The title of the thread is inflammatory and as yet, I haven't read anything that you've posted that is anything less than a veiled threat. If you want to use the forum to actually help owners in trouble, to collate problems, to communicate with Zero, then I say more power to you. If your intent is just to vent, then have at it, but don't do so in the guise of being a consumer advocate.

[protomech]

I think that many of the customer relation issues that people have had were with their retail dealers who are not experienced with the brand or technology.  Perhaps Zero needs to improve their dealer training, service education and customer service followup at the dealer level. So far, my Zero has been a lot more reliable than any of the 7 BMW motorcycles that I have owned during the past 25 years.  However, I will admit that BMW dealers all provide excellent customer service and most provide loaners if your bike needs servicing.

I agree with Richard230. To me, it seems ludicrous to imagine resolving similar problems in the same way with a gas bike - for example, contacting Honda or BMW directly to resolve a faulty throttle body or intermittent stalls. Like other manufacturers, Zero's first line of customer service should be local service centers. But the quality of service from dealers or service centers seems to vary wildly, and some customers seem to be ignored.

* Some dealerships are really going the extra mile for their customers, and I hope they are rewarded for doing so.
* Some dealerships are held up by troubles on Zero's end. Logistics will never perfect, but from anecdotes there appear to be numerous supply problems.
* Some dealerships have issues with lack of adequate training. This is not helped by significant redesigns to the battery and motor/controller combination in 2012 and 2013. Net result however is that lack of training pushes service issues back to Zero, and I think they are understaffed to deal with service issues in a timely fashion.
* Some dealerships honestly don't seem to care about supporting the bikes. Perhaps this makes financial sense - a dealer that has sold few bikes may see little reason to support them. But the end result is a negative customer experience, and Zero needs to reform or cull these dealers.

I've probably hit every serious service issue on the 2012 bikes. 2 rounds of the controller glitch, faulty weatherproofing on the BMS board, faulty cells. In 20 months of ownership, the bike has been completely unavailable for about 5 months, and operating in a degraded state for 7 months. Ultimately I would say that I'm disappointed with the bike's demonstrated reliability, but Zero has gone above and beyond my expectations for their warranty service, especially as I am so far away.

Collecting unresolved service issues in one place is a good idea. Squeaky wheel, etc. ZeroLover: I've PMed you contact information for the director of aftersales support at Zero. Start by escalating it within the company, if you have not done so already.

[trevor]

After two months in my dealer's shop, I finally got my 2011 XU back fully repaired at no cost (I was just one year into a two-year warranty).

It was one of the worst customer service experiences of my life, but I am glad to have my bike back. It is hard to say where the problem lay - the dealer certainly needs to improve their customer service but they also complained that it was very difficult to get help and parts from Zero.

Zero, please pay more attention to your reputation and brand. These dealers are representing your product to the world and it's in your interest to make sure they are properly trained and that you are responsive to their needs.
We, the early adopters, are important to your company's future and are not disposable. You really need to keep us happy.

-Trevor

As of today, here is a first list of users with serious & unsolved cases. Please add yours if any !
If a US lawyer ready to work for a % of torts reads this forum, you're welcomed !

**Jacob

Hello I am a 2011 DS zero owner in Vancouver Canada.

I received a recall notice that said the parts would be in the dealer by mid August.

I am still waiting...

My impression is that it is an incompetent zoo in their parts dept. have several bad experiences with Zero parts.

**Trevor

My 2011 Zero XU worked great for a year (bought new in Sept 2012), almost 4,000 mile commuting to work. Then it started intermittently shutting down (presumably throttle disable due to error). It happened mostly on startup but a couple times while riding.

Here's where it gets pathetic. The bike was still under warranty and I took it back to the dealer. They seemed to have no electronic diagnostic ability whatsoever, at least for this model. It took over a week for them to see the error occur and when it happened they were unprepared to diagnose the problem, so they had to send to Zero for instructions. They could not (or would not put in the effort) to reproduce the problem. So my bike sat in their shop for over a month. Finally after some tense conversations with them they managed to reproduce the error and now apparently had learned from Zero that the motor controller had to be replaced. Then they said it would take a week to get the part from Zero. The dealer complained that Zero was difficult to work with - slow to respond to help requests and slow to deliver parts.

So, over a month in the shop with no offer of a loaner bike or rental car. Both the dealer and Zero are to blame here, but mostly Zero for not paying as much attention to service, and their reputation, as they should.

I don't think Zero knows how badly they've screwed up. Literally dozens of people who thought my bike was really cool have noticed I'm not riding it. Way to go Zero.

My advice to Zero: Don't call yourself Zero unless you intend to be excellent. Your brand can very quickly become a joke.

 
**Tim
"I just got an update as well on 2012 DS(2700 miles)due to the "glitch." It was perfect for about a week and then got progressively worse over this second week. Possibly correlated to ambient temp. 1. this week has been warming up. 2. bike has sat in the sun after the worst problem I've had. That worst problem being starting off for my ride home at the end of the day. It will move backwards or hardly move when i roll the throttle. I have recently noticed I can "break through" if i manually roll the bike forward and roll the throttle somewhat hard. Seems a little dangerous. Im not sure if i could have done that before the update. As of now the only difference is i dont have to restart with the key when it cuts off."

10/13/2013
" I am not giving up on Zero. Despite my dealership that is playing catch-up, they and especially the eastern zero tech have been responsive. I am still riding and just dealing with it until I hear back about the next course of action. Trying to be patient and trusting.

Some other notes of interest:

My zero was a demo so may have been a somewhat earlier build (Edit: #123, I assume it is consecutive out of the factory?)

the update, done sometime in early September, did negate the need to restart with the key while moving. It does seem that it will cut off at higher speeds now"

** Bryan
I currently have my Zero S in the shop and I have been having lackluster service.  The problem is I am losing throttle while going down the road, not very fun, and from what I have read a lot of other people have this same issue.  First the technician told me that it is probably the contactor because that was the error code I was getting.  He told me to open the battery pack myself, not something our owner’s manual suggests to do.  He retracted that statement two days later and told me to take it to my local dealer.  After one week of having it at the dealer thaey said they could not get the bike to produce the same problem.  The dealer said that the ZERO rep told them if they were to change anything it would be the controller.  I was not too happy with that because it is a 800 dollar part and I am out of warranty.  They said there was nothing else they could do.

 
 I called Zero directly and asked if they had any history on the problem I am having and a new guy told me that it is more than likely the MBB.  I told this to the dealer and now they are trying to get a hold of the same guy at Zero I talked to so everyone is on the same page, but I still have not heard back.

 
 It has now been two and a half weeks since I took the bike to the dealership, and 4 weeks since I started dealing with Zero on this problem.

** Vincent

Hi !

I really love Zero bikes, but I had a very unpleasant experience with the XU 2012 I bought. A few months afetr purchase, the "glitch" appeared to the point that the bike began stopping while driving in the traffic. Then I gave it back to the dealership. They kindly offered me a replacement with a 2013 XU (after 3+ months) and both dealer & importer were very nice, but since I need a bike that can be driven with a 125 cc licence (i wanted to give the XU to my mother, and the Learning school refused her, so she needs a bike you can drive with a 125cc permit), which is not the case of the 2013 XU, i'm still waiting for a solution. In the meantime I bought a 2013 S, which look to have a new bug when turning the key on - for which i'm still waiting for a solution from my dealer.

I'm ok to have issues with a new bike, but considered the price I paid (20 k$) i'd really expect quick & reassuring solutions : now i'v put 32.000 $ in two zero bikes and one is broken and no mire in my possession since 6 months, and the other has a new bug for which no excuse or solution has been proposed so far ! And when you see how depressed is the second hand market (basically, second hand price is zero because nobody buys a used Zero), I think Zero's plan should allocate more resources to fix issues and ensure first clients keep the "e-rider" smile on their face !

[ZeroLover]

All,
- Court is easy : fault is without any doubt on Zero's side. You just give money to your lawyer and get it back + bike refund + compensation for lost time. Clearly when you see such defects, this is really easy ! And yes I've been to court quite often. But this is what I'm doing as a last resort, because it is not the way things should go - unless you have no other options.

- Homologation authorities are in charge of deciding if a particular model is authorized on the roads. Stopping suddenly when in the traffic without any reason is a serious issue that calls for scrutiny. And obviously the tests performed on electric bikes (see Zero's multiple issues with wetness) need to be improved.

-You're right about dealers. And also regarding the complex supply chain. What is still a puzzle for me is when situations turn so badly that in my company someone at top level would look at it, here nothing seems to happen. No even a mail to the customer saying "ok, sorry we messed. it might take a few weeks but we'll fix this !"

-As explained the goal is to get more attention for the cases we collated, and probably others encountering similar issue. By the way, thanks for the messages I got with names or ideas on how to improve the situation. Regarding "power to me" - I don't want any power. My dream is to see our issues solved. We'd really prefer spending our time saying positive things on this bike... But before this, the negative has to be solved. And yes i'm a bit upset by the way we were treated. But after buying a new bike, having it blocked for months, and having no solutions in the foreseeable future, who wouldn't ?

[NoiseBoy]

ZeroLover: Are you representing a firm or not? If you are then fine but be honest about it.

The only people that come out of court happy in the long run are the lawyers. It is certainly not easy and definitely not on this scale. At least not where I live.

[LiveandLetDrive]

ZeroLover, do you own a Zero bike?  If so, what?

[Justin Andrews]

Courts are a bad idea and must always be a last resort, as they have a tendency to simply ruin everything for everyone in the long term.
They make a mess of the smaller companies, while the bigger companies are too large to be affected by the rulings.
Its short term profit for long term ruin.

Horrible.


Anyway, I have found that my dealers (and their interaction with Zero) is first rate, and this is in the UK where Zero have limited presence...!

[nicktulloh]

All,
- Court is easy : fault is without any doubt on Zero's side. You just give money to your lawyer and get it back + bike refund + compensation for lost time. Clearly when you see such defects, this is really easy ! And yes I've been to court quite often. But this is what I'm doing as a last resort, because it is not the way things should go - unless you have no other options.

Quite often? Really? For what?

Court is never, ever, ever, ever "easy".

As an example, in this case. IF you were able to establish that there IS any fault, who is the "Zero side"? The dealer? The manufacturer? Someone else?

Where do you live?

- Homologation authorities are in charge of deciding if a particular model is authorized on the roads. Stopping suddenly when in the traffic without any reason is a serious issue that calls for scrutiny. And obviously the tests performed on electric bikes (see Zero's multiple issues with wetness) need to be improved.

I'm still waiting to hear who the "homologation" authorities are? Agency name, please.

[protomech]

One example for the US is the FMVSS - federal motor vehicle safety standards. It specifies performance requirements and design considerations like lighting (color, brightness, directed angle and spread), braking performance, controls, etc.

The NHTSA administers compliance with this standard, as well as safercar.gov where users can submit incident reports that may be used to initiate a recall.

[ZeroLover]

Totally agree that courts should never be a preferred option when a good faith dialog exists (ie : someone listens to you, gives you a clear view of the process/delay, and makes his best efforts to find an acceptable solution to the issue, all this in a reasonable delay). But after long discussions with dealer and zero - which is what was done in all the cases I mentioned - and no news or solution for months, what can you do ? Of course it will cost a bit in the short term, but in the end the one that loses the case will pay - and here there is no doubt who will. It is just a matter of time - but if your case is correctly built, and if you can prove - which is the case here - that nothing was done to try to fix the case, then you can get money for the time lost.