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[WindRider]

Hey BSD,

No problem that the thread has strayed away from target. 

I think the answer to "Anyone using CHAdeMO?" is no, so feel free to stray into any kind of charging topic of interest.   I enjoy reading all of it. 

[Iz4r0]

it's my first post here on the forum, so first of all thank you for the interesting readings.

I'm planning to buy a DS 2014 (I test rode the 2013) to substitute my ICE bike with which I love to do road trips now and then, but normally I don't take highways and I don't ride for more than 250km (155mi) per day. For these trips, I was thinking about the CHAdeMO option that unfortunately, after reading your posts, doesn't seem a real "option"... 

So I was wondering, how are you guys connecting those ELCON chargers to your bikes seen that Zero uses a proprietary connector (am I right?) for its crappy huge, heavy, slow and damn expensive "quick" charger?? Not to mention the Y cable, which I think has a higher price-to-weight ratio than platinum...
If I have well understood, for its Meanwell charger DOC opened up the BMS and added its own connector. However I'm not such an expert and I wouldn't want to void the warranty of a 16k euro bike...

I found this pretty cheap (around 500$), compact and powerful charger:

http://www.lowcarbon-idea.com/eshowshop.asp?/16.html

what do you think about it? They have also higher power chargers, but I think that 3kW is the highest power that the Zero connector can take. I don't care if it isn't waterproof, it’s about 1/3 in size and weight with respect to an equivalent power sealed ELCON charger, so I would bring it with me only when needed and inside the top box.

Thank you and I hope to join you as an electric rider soon!!

[dc5dd]

http://www.lowcarbon-idea.com/eshowshop.asp?/16.html

These guys need some EU or US certifications their website seems polished but I wouldn't connect a $16K bike up to anything that isn't proven by forum members or industry or a lot of testing

I hear that Zero is warning potential buyers about problems with Chademo and at this point it does not work in all place.  What I'm wondering is if there is a fix for this?  Like an inline DC/DC converter?  Might have to be beefy

@Iz4r0 I think the charger will work but there needs to be a lot of work done.  There is a video on youtube that DocBass made of his charger setup that would be a good place to start.

Good Luck

Edit:  On second look they do have a IP rating EU 

[aaronzeromoto]

In the last week, I have received a large number of inbound questions from our sales team on CHAdeMO.  Perhaps from people reading this thread?  So I thought I would post a little something here. 

I do have the 2013 CHAdeMO Mounting Kit installed on my Zero DS and it works as it should.  We believe any problems stem from charging stations that have not fully implemented the CHAdeMO specification.  Our motorcycles operate at a lower voltage than most electric automobiles, and many of the charging stations focused their designs for these cars.  I have been reaching out to the CHAdeMO organization and the engineering team has been working with charging station companies to address these issues, but there does not seem to be a quick fix.

Bottom line is I don't want anyone to purchase this kit unless they are sure they have access to compatible stations.  Our fleet customers will typically look at installing a station so they can ensure compliance.  Otherwise, all inbound retail orders come to me for discussion.  But if you have a 2013 motorcycle and want this functionality, it's a great feeling to have your motorcycle recharge from 0 to 95% in about one hour.  Feel free to PM me and I can get you connected (literally).

Regards,
aaronzeromoto

[oobflyer]

Thanks for the info Aaron. As a Leaf driver I love the CHAdeMO fast-DC charging option - it's amazing to watch the battery 'fill-up' quickly - and makes the EV experience much more practical.
As a Zero rider (2012 ZF9) I was really happy to see Zero introduce this capability... although I wish I'd waited for the 2013 bikes  ;-)

On the Zero website it says that the CHAdeMO option is also available on the 2014 bikes - is it safe to assume that Zero will continue to offer this option and continue to work with charging stations manufacturers?  I'm tentatively planning on a new bike in about a year from now - preferably one with fast-DC charging capabilities.

[Iz4r0]

Unfortunately almost all modern CHAdeMO charging station in Europe are not compatible with the Zeros... 
In fact, the main european installer does not offer CHAdeMo chargers with voltages lower than 200V (I checked here http://www.dbtcev.fr/en/ ).  That's a shame because for scooters and motorcycles DC charging is the only real quick charge possibility, seen the space and weight limitations to bring more powerful onboard chargers.

[MichaelJ]

Hello Aaron,

I have an electric scooter from www.currentmotor.com that offers 40 miles of range and is plenty for my commute.  However, to go on longer trips I am saving up for a Zero S ZF11.4.  These trips are 100 miles or longer @ 60-70 mph--and can include climbing thousands feet of elevation to cross over the Cascade Mountain Range.  Because of this, adding the Power Tank and CHAdeMO kit seem necessary.  Otherwise, what might be a convenient half-hour rest break or one-hour meal every 70-85 miles over level ground--or after 20-25 miles of climbing over a mountain pass--becomes an overnight stay to allow for 10 hours of recharging at 120V.

I have been reaching out to the CHAdeMO organization and the engineering team has been working with charging station companies to address these issues, but there does not seem to be a quick fix.  [...]  Bottom line is I don't want anyone to purchase this kit unless they are sure they have access to compatible stations.

In Seattle, I had the pleasure of speaking with Jeff Jolin and Richard Walker last weekend at the International Motorcycle Show to learn more about the CHAdeMO kit.  Richard said that there was a maximum voltage that the CHAdeMO kit could support, and that EVSE manufacturers targeted higher voltages because they assumed that only cars or larger vehicles would use them.

Based on their feedback and what you wrote above, I fear that Zero's CHAdeMO kit will not support the long trips I'm planning.

Could you please advise how customers may become "sure they have access to compatible stations"?

In Washington State, CHAdeMO installations are split between Blink (now CarCharging) in urban areas and AeroVironment outside of these areas (see www.westcoastgreenhighway.com/WAelectrichighways.htm).  I have a Blink in my garage for my LEAF, but once on the road, I will be at the mercy of AeroVironment's EVSEs, so that is the focus of my inquiry.

For the specific case of the AeroVironment EV50 documented at www.westcoastgreenhighway.com/pdfs/DCfastchargeequipment.pdf, can Zero's CHAdeMO kit charge from it successfully?

For the general case, how should customers read an EVSE spec sheet to learn whether Zero's CHAdeMO kit is compatible with it?

--
Thanks and best regards,
Michael

[benswing]

Looks like Zero may need to include a Voltage step-down circuit in the CHAdeMO kit.  If they could make a circuit that could communicate with the CHAdeMO charging station and step down the voltage as necessary, that should fix the problem.

I'm very interested in faster charging on the road and (happily) there are now more fast charging stations available on the East Coast.  They are listed on Plugshare, but not on the map on the official CHAdeMO site.

[protomech]

In Seattle, I had the pleasure of speaking with Jeff Jolin and Richard Walker last weekend at the International Motorcycle Show to learn more about the CHAdeMO kit.  Richard said that there was a maximum voltage that the CHAdeMO kit could support, and that EVSE manufacturers targeted higher voltages because they assumed that only cars or larger vehicles would use them.

Based on their feedback and what you wrote above, I fear that Zero's CHAdeMO kit will not support the long trips I'm planning.

Could you please advise how customers may become "sure they have access to compatible stations"?

In Washington State, CHAdeMO installations are split between Blink (now CarCharging) in urban areas and AeroVironment outside of these areas (see www.westcoastgreenhighway.com/WAelectrichighways.htm).  I have a Blink in my garage for my LEAF, but once on the road, I will be at the mercy of AeroVironment's EVSEs, so that is the focus of my inquiry.

For the specific case of the AeroVironment EV50 documented at www.westcoastgreenhighway.com/pdfs/DCfastchargeequipment.pdf, can Zero's CHAdeMO kit charge from it successfully?

For the general case, how should customers read an EVSE spec sheet to learn whether Zero's CHAdeMO kit is compatible with it?

Probably the ultimate answer will be a compatibility list of CHAdeMO chargers.

In general, however, the problem is that many CHAdeMO chargers are limited to a minimum voltage of 150V or 200V DC, where the 2013-2014 Zero bikes need 84-118V DC. For example, the Blink chargers are limited to 200V minimum, where the Aerovironment charger claims a minimum of 50V DC. In theory, then, the Aerovironment charger would be compatible with the Zero CHAdeMO inlet.

[MichaelJ]

Probably the ultimate answer will be a compatibility list of CHAdeMO chargers.

Thank you for your reply, Protomech.  I agree that a compatibility list would be helpful.  However, I suspect such a list would be time consuming to maintain and impossible for Zero to exhaustively test.  Further, the inconvenience of having to consult a compatibility table would deter potential customers unless the compatibility list was published as a convenient overlay on existing EVSE maps like Plugshare's.

the 2013-2014 Zero bikes need 84-118V DC.

Thanks for this number.  Where did you find it?  I didn't see it on the Zero web site under the model S specs page or the CHAdeMO accessory page.

the Aerovironment charger claims a minimum of 50V DC. In theory, then, the Aerovironment charger would be compatible with the Zero CHAdeMO inlet.

Yes, reading that number in the AeroVironment EV50 spec sheet made me cautiously optimistic, but I look forward to confirmation from Zero.

--
Thanks,
Michael

[aaronzeromoto]

We all know that the right answer is CHAdeMO should work in every case.  For this reason, I am continuing to work with the CHAdeMO organization to ensure that this is the goal.  When charging station companies comply with the full specification, then we believe we will always work.  And thus, our CHAdeMO solution today tends to be best for fleet customers willing to install a known compatible charging station.

With respect to the specific questions regarding a compatibility list and AeroVironment here:

Probably the ultimate answer will be a compatibility list of CHAdeMO chargers.

Yes.  I have an unofficial list.  It's hard to maintain because there is no central testing location or methodology under which we can maintain this list.  If you ever see a Zero at one of the CHAdeMO stations in the Bay Area, its probably part of our testing program.  On weekends, I like to ride from one to the next just to see what happens.  I can say I feel good about ABB and Nissan stations. Blink generally does not support the lower voltages.  I have a meeting tomorrow with AeroVironment, which supports the voltage but has another issue we are looking to confirm.

Regards,
aaronzeromoto

[MichaelJ]

I have a meeting tomorrow with AeroVironment, which supports the voltage but has another issue we are looking to confirm.

Aaron, thank you very much for your reply, and for fighting the good fight for compatibility. 

Best wishes for a fruitful meeting with AeroVironment!

--
Cheers,
Michael

[oobflyer]

As a Leaf driver I was very happy to hear that Zero had offered a high-speed charging option. It's amazing to watch the battery gauge go from empty to full in just a few minutes.
I'm tentatively planning on selling my 2012 Zero at the end of this year to purchase a 2015. If the CHAdeMO option is still available I will be purchasing it. Even if I have to research which stations are compatible with the bike it will be worth it.
If the 2014 Zero ZF14 range is anywhere near the advertised range (171 miles) - they are now in the same ballpark as a gas bike. The longest I've ridden on a gas bike before stopping is 140 miles (on reserve).

[protomech]

oobflyer - keep in mind that the ZF14.2 range is in city riding (which would take 5 or 6 hours to complete that range test!). Highway riding, where you would have more of a need for fast charging, can deplete the ZF14.2 battery in about 75 minutes, which is still very decent range. Even in two years Zero has gone from 43 miles of highway range to 88 miles.

I've got my fingers crossed for a touring bike from Zero in 2015.

[Burton]

I've got my fingers crossed for a touring bike from Zero in 2015.

I am hoping to turn my zero into a touring zero by adding streamlining and increasing my range 50% or more =D