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[WindRider]

Thanks all for the informative answers.   

Sounds like quick charging is still best done with chargers that go along for the ride.

Too bad, I like to travel light.

[Zero.DS.Sweden]

I wanted to buy CHAdeMON to my S 2013 in July but it was not ready. 2 Delta-Q works fine but heavy.

[aaronzeromoto]

The CHAdeMO spec supports up to 500V DC charging. But not all chargers (very unfortunately) support the full range of voltages.

Examples:

Will charge the Zeros
Aerovironment's Fleet 30 kW fleet DC charger is 100V to 500V, 100A maximum. (supports multiple protocols, and they have versions up to 250 kW!)
http://evsolutions.avinc.com/uploads/products/1_AV_EV30-FS_061110_fleet_dc.pdf
~1.2h charge time for ZF14.2

Nissan NSQC442E is 50V to 500V, 120A maximum.
http://evsolutions.avinc.com/uploads/products/Nissan%20DC%20FC%20sales%20sheet_092812_r3_v1.pdf
~1.0h charge time for ZF14.2


Will not charge the Zeros
EVTEC 10kW and 20kW are 250V to 500V DC output, 60A max.
http://www.evtec.ch/c5website/index.php/en/products/move_and_charge/

Blink Fast DC 60kW is 200V to 500V DC output, 200A max. (unfortunate, since these are the ones in Tennessee near me)
https://www.blinknetwork.com/brochures/dc-fast-charger/index.html

Thanks for posting this topic.  And I am always impressed by the information shared on this forum.  Protomech's information above appears particularly accurate. 

We do have the CHAdeMO Fast Charge Socket Kit available(p/n 10-05718 for the 2013 Zero S/DS and 10-06185 for the 2013 Zero FX/XU).  However, given our experience with potential incompatibilities due to the lack of low end voltage support from some charging stations, I have been requiring that every dealer that sells one talks to me about it and the customer as well.  So sales to end consumers have been limited, and it's really more attractive to fleet customers that are installing a charging station that they know is compatible.  Bottom line is that the cost is high enough that I don't want to get crucified by someone who didn't fully appreciate the issues here, which we are actively working to resolve with charging station companies.

After learning all this, if you are excited to get the CHAdeMO capability, please PM me and we can work with your local dealer to get it installed.  We do have them in stock.

Regards,
aaronzeromoto

[WindRider]

Hey Aaron,

It would be great if Zero could do something like this or piggyback onto it in some way:

http://www.teslamotors.com/supercharger

This is a well planned and thought out attempt to remove the range/recharge issues from long distance EV travel.   Why not a little Zero SuperCharger next to the Tesla version?

 

[protomech]

Or better yet, use the Tesla Supercharger port directly. They've mentioned a possibility of opening up the ports to other vehicles, but I don't know how serious Tesla's interest is in doing so.

I suspect Tesla is planning out the Supercharger network around a minimum 200 mile vehicle range.

This does a couple things for them:

* more range => stations can be sparser and fewer in number
* larger batteries => can safely charge at higher mile per hour rates => less time waiting to charge for a given trip => more trips charged per station

If Tesla does open up the stations, I bet Tesla will require a minimum miles charged per hour rate in order to use the stations. Model S can charge at 350-400 miles per hour at a 120 kW station, and Tesla is talking about bumping the charging rate further.

It would be silly for Tesla to allow a Zero or other vehicle to charge at 70 miles per hour, occupying a charging station for 5x the length of time as a Tesla for a given distance traveled. Particularly as the stations start to fill up - I'm curious how availability at the California stations is playing out given the number of Tesla sales in that state.

A 20 kWh bike with Terry's aero shell (100 Wh/mile @ 70 mph) charging at 2C (with active cooling?) would have a 200 mile range and could bulk charge at the rate of 400 miles per hour. This should be the minimum target for a touring bike.

[WindRider]

From the graphic on Tesla's Supercharger site the targets are clear:

200 miles of Range, 30 minutes to charge.

Given that, you could drive 400 miles in one day with only 30 minutes of charging time and the second charge could happen overnight.

[lolachampcar]

BSD,
Nice work!

[oobflyer]

Interesting to finally understand the reluctance regarding the CHAdeMO charging. I have a Nissan Leaf and I love the CHAdeMO charging capability. From where I live I can access five CHAdeMO chargers - making it easy for me to drive longer distances on electricity. My Zero is a 2012, so I can't do the fast DC charging on my bike and I was wondering why more 2013 Zero riders weren't excited about this technology.

It makes sense that the CHAdeMO chargers were designed to charge at higher voltages (the Leaf has a 400V system). Hopefully Zero will find a way to make their bikes compatible with more of the existing chargers - it sounds like they're working with the CHAdeMO charger manufacturers. If the CHAdeMO manufacturers can adjust the chargers so that they will work at lower voltages without affecting the ability to charge cars at higher voltages - why wouldn't they? They would get more customers.

The Nissan dealerships all have J1772 chargers, and some of them also have CHAdeMO chargers - since I also have a Leaf they are happy to allow me to plug my Zero into their J1772 chargers - and I'm sure they'd let me use the CHAdeMO charger if I could.

This is the CHAdeMO charger at Zero Headquarters in Scotts Valley - I didn't ask, but I'm willing to bet it works with the Zero bikes - has anyone tried it?

[protomech]

Looks like an ABB Terra 51.
http://www.abb.us/product/seitp332/7376219a12dbef8f85257b5d00595275.aspx?productLanguage=us&country=US



Output voltage range 50-500V
Maximum current output 120A

Perfect for the Zero bikes.

It's probably a little more difficult to design (= expensive) and costly to manufacture a charger that can handle the full range of the CHAdeMO specification. That's why you see a lot of chargers max at 100A, and sometimes only go as low as 200V .. if it works for a LEAF and an i-MiEV then it captures probably > 95% of the vehicles sold that can charge with CHAdeMO.

[firepower]

If it can't match full spec then it not really a standard. Its false standard and marketing. if there are different levels of spec it should be marketed as such, similar to PC specs, e.g. USB spec, USB 2, USB 3.
Chademo should havel  similar catorgies / levels.

[Zero.DS.Sweden]

When I order my 2013 S in July I was ready to order CHAdeMON but it wasnt ready then. For roadtrips I see a huge advantage.

[Doctorbass]

The second thing is how to "open" the main relay like the bike is running.

I use a key-switch you can see on the photo at the right side under my seat.
I have cut the orange/red cable at pin 1 to the sevcon. it is the supply for the Sevcon.
In one position of the switch i connect the orange/red line as original (drive mode)
The center connection of the switch is running to the Sevcon the switching contact is the incoming cable (from MBB).
At the other contact of the switch I have connected the Battery + (tapped at the Anderson). If I switch the Key-switch to this position the Sevcon is powered on and the relay opens the high current path to the battery
The rest of the bike is off! (of course the BMS is always on).
You can see the red Anderson connector for the charger and the  green and blue small Anderson in front of the red one there is the battery + and the white BMS control line to my charging box.

Excellent work! I just discovered your reply on that thread and thats very interesting. So you can have the BMS working and stoping the charger for protection? and have the bike OFF while the BMS  is ON and can charge thru the sevcon main power line?


Doc

[BSDThw]

Hi Doc

... have the bike OFF while the BMS  is ON and can charge thru the sevcon main power line?

Yes it works fine.

So you can have the BMS working and stopping the charger for protection?

I still was to lazy to built my circuit-board that detect the BMS signal. I did same tests to activate the BMS but I never saw the "white" line to shut off (I always stopped charging before) so I guess the white line will make a protection signal but I can't be 100% sure.
Not long ago I had my first look to the MBB and BMS settings and I am not sure but maybe it is possible to set the end of charge level lower to see if the protection work but the battery is still in save voltage condition. Winter time is long

[Mr. Fusion]

How does it work with the Chademo kit? Does it also connect to the Sevcon and thus need to power the Sevcon or is it done differently?

[BSDThw]

Sorry we are a bit away from the topic and even talk of 2012 models

I don't know how ChAdeMo is connected but you don't need the Sevcon for this. I have more current as the 30A battery connector/wiring endure. I don't want to open the battery and fiddle in some connectors so the easy way was to use the Sevcon to power on the main relay. Therefore the 400+Amp path is usable.

The 2013-14 will have high a current path to the Battery but I would also like to have detail information.
A photo from the powertrain pdf let me think the "top-box" has a high current connection to the battery inside!