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[Doctorbass]

Hi All

I got my 2012 S ZF9 bike controller updated according to the last Zero service Bulletin that should solve the famous GLITCH.

I was really curious to see the difference after the update  as well so i got the bike out for a ride.

Here are the observations.

-Glitch did not happened during any stop and go or normal speed at any place. ( previously in ANY conditions glitch was happening erraticly 5-10 time in the lastss ride!!) So this improoved ALOT the fun and confort feeling to no more worrie about having teh bike to cut at any time and any PLACE !!!

-Bike power significantly increased at very high speed ( 120-145kmh)  due to the new programmed max motor RPM wich is not 6000RPM. What happen is that  not the current to the motor is sustained until higher RPM than before. Before at 5000RPM the motor current was beginning to decrease, limiting the acceleration. Now the motor current continu to be sustained at until 6000RPM wich preserve aceleration up to about 145-150km/h

Previously the motor max power i had recorded  without the new firmware update was 26kW and 420A and not it is more like 30kW and 445A max sustained.

Btw with the ZF9 battery I have measured that the bike require about 9-10kW to sustain 100km/h and 15-18kW to sustain 120km/h wich mean that with teh actual battery i can do about 80-100km at 100km/h and 50-60km at 120km/h

The bike acceleration seem to be more linear than before. Before the bike had his peak acceleration at about 80km/h, now it is more smooth but is sustained for higher speed.

I finally got the motor to cut on the highway but i think it happened due to the motor max temp reached but i did not pay attention to confirm if the " ! " logo was blinking on the display or not. but when i have exit the highway and goes to a 70kmh boulevard, i was that Temperature alarm blinking when i accelerated so i guess the motor was hot enough.

I admit that i was pretty hard on the throttle on the highway and saw often the 430-440A for couples of second during acceleration.

Overal conclusion: The bike is way better than before the lastest  firmware update and "glitch"seem to only happen at high motor temp or high sustained current demand.

Motor  and controller are a little more hot to the touch than before 9 but hey!.. it also happened due to my very high throttle power demand to see the limit of that updated bike!)

I was so hard on the throttle than after only 12km i had 2 bar dissapear on the gauge!.. normally i can do up to 15km on a single bar!

Doc

[Doctorbass]

Ok some more details about the stats of the motor and controller during my hard test ride:

Max motor temp: 129 celsius 
 (protection stage 1 begin to activate at 145 C and stage 2 at 152 celsius) so motor did not had hard time enough to create the power cut

Max controller temp: 72 celsius
 (protection stage 1 begin to activate at 70 C and stage 2 at 75 celsius) so motor did  had hard time enough to create the power reduce  or cut by  activating the Stage 1 protection

Doc

[NoiseBoy]

This confirms our thoughts that the controller is the thermal weak link.

Do you know the date this firmware was release?  Im assuming that I have the latest version but I never noticed a performance increase.

[Doctorbass]

Hello The sevcon firmware is from July 2013 and the Service Bulletin  is from June 2013 and it mention it apply to all S and DS 2012 model

Doc

[kcoplan]

Hmmm . . . . just got my bike ('12 S ZF6) back from the nine-week glitch service repair and refurbishment, and I assume that they updated the firmware at the same time . . .  the main difference I have noticed is that there seems to be much less regen (maybe none) when coasting in Eco mode  . . . there seems to be relatively more regen in Sport mode (but I cant be sure because I might just be comparing it to the lack of regen in Eco mode).  Cant tell about top end performance, since I havent had a good opportunity to open it up on the highway.

--Karl

[BSDThw]

Take in account if your battery if fully charged regen will cut off because the voltage raise is to high.

You should test it in both modes when you have pulled some juice before

[Doctorbass]

Got progressively the DAMN glitch over the last few days!!

It is less present, I would say 1/2 of what it was before but I get it in EVERY  situations

- When starting at a dead stop or at a read light that goes green.. ( throttle is just like disabled until I cycle the key)
- While accelerating at high power when entering highway, motor just cut while accelerating!
-When in cruise speed, sometime when there is strong wind, it's like the motor don't like it and begin to vibrate and loose power)

Next step will be to return the motor directly to Zero for repair or replacement. Unless they release a service bulletin for fixing the problem on the motor.

Doc

[DedoBurns]

I just got an update as well on 2012 DS(2700 miles)due to the "glitch." It was perfect for about a week and then got progressively worse over this second week. Possibly correlated to ambient temp. 1. this week has been warming up. 2. bike has sat in the sun after the worst problem I've had. That worst problem being starting off for my ride home at the end of the day. It will move backwards or hardly move when i roll the throttle. I have recently noticed I can "break through" if i manually roll the bike forward and roll the throttle somewhat hard. Seems a little dangerous. Im not sure if i could have done that before the update. As of now the only difference is i dont have to restart with the key when it cuts off.

[protomech]

I believe the firmware corrected two things:

1. The drift tolerance was increased, such that the bike would not shut as frequently.
2. When a glitch occurs, the controller will automatically reset itself when the throttle is returned to idle. Much safer than turning the bike off and then back on.

I don't know that they've fundamentally fixed the glitch. I haven't had motor issues post-glitch, but my motor was damaged in shipping : | and the replacement motor has been fine.

[Doctorbass]

Protomech, I dont think that the firmware update allow a reset when turning back the throttle... I have the lastest firmware version that Zero sent me and the glitch NEVER changed
It is still ALOT.. well TOO present and now since yesterday i also get the bike going backwards !!!

It also happened the same way as for DedoBurns

bike has sat in the sun  in the parking lot of my work after the worst problem I've had. That worst problem being starting off for my ride home at the end of the day. It will move backwards or hardly move when i roll the throttle.

YES BACKWARD !!! Dams !! it also happened to me at a stop  and i had a car behind me !! he used his horn because he tought that i would hit his car...

that's a so bad publicity for Zero!

The vibration and loss of power also happen when i'm on teh highway and that there is alot of wind... Wind seem to increase the event of glitch...

I'm nearly convinced that it's something to have with the encoder that is like losen on the motor shaft or a bad connection on the encoder sensor.

 If it would not be under warranty i would attempt to repair it myself, i'm sure i can. but once it woudl be done the bike would not move and i wuld need the CANBUS Interface to reprogram and calibrate the controller with the fixed position of the encoder disk...


Doc

[Justin Andrews]

These are word for word the same problems I'm experiencing Doc.

Zero are taking my bike in for a motor replacement, in the meantime I'm reguarly recalibrating the motor through the MBB board which is helping a lot.
This is resulting in relativley few glitches but still a fair bit of rough running.

I'm still riding my bike (3k miles and counting) but I'll be glad when the motor gets replaced.

2. When a glitch occurs, the controller will automatically reset itself when the throttle is returned to idle. Much safer than turning the bike off and then back on.

Weird, I've got the latest firmware update (as of Aug 2013) and I can't say that my bike resets itself after a glitch when the throttle is rolled off...

[dahlheim]

Had my first glitch yesterday at about 1800 miles on the clock.  Happened at an intersection, with very rough vibration from the motor on attempted acceleration, followed by no response when i stopped.  it took two "reboots" to work right.

this technology isn't ready for prime time.  sorry to say it.  it's not.

guess i'll get one of my gasoline bikes back out.  i don't have the freedom to just get stuck whenever the bike decides it.  i can't call out (or late) for work.  not to mention, that was pretty scary.

i look forward to trying to follow any progress from the obviously very intelligent people on this thread, since zero isn't officially saying much of anything...

very disappointed.

[protomech]

Hum. My understanding was that would go out in the next update. Perhaps it got held back?

[Justin Andrews]

Hum. My understanding was that would go out in the next update. Perhaps it got held back?

I idly contemplated building a little arduino based gadget that connects to the bike through the CANBUS port and when it glitches, you press a button to recalibrate the bike. Seems that this "close throttle" would be a similar official solution... 

To be honest the glitch is not a deal breaker for me, and Zero are helping to try and fix it on my bike. So far I'm pretty impressed with the level of customer support I've recieved, far in excess of any other manufacturer I've had a new bike from.

[BSDThw]

I idly contemplated building a little arduino based gadget that connects to the bike through the CANBUS port and when it glitches, you press a button to recalibrate the bike. Seems that this "close throttle" would be a similar official solution... 

Do you think it will work so easy?
Next you will find a part of the Help-Text of the Sevcon Programming SW it tells you to go to "Pre-Operational" Mode I wouldn't do all this while "riding" the bike.

...{Commision encoder}
Use of a sin-cos encoder requires that the minimum and maximum voltages for each signal are programmed into the controllers object dictionary.
!1) Connect the sine and cosine signals from the encoder to their relevant inputs.!
!2) Put the controller in to pre-operational and cycle power.!
<Go Preop: fpo $helper_node pre>
!3) Spin the motor externally several rotations and then click button below.!
<Commision SIN/COS encoder: ::help_sincos::commit $helper_node>
When setting the encoder voltages, it is also ...

I don't get the Glitch at my DS2012 so I am happy and don't need to change anything but I have an idea (never tested it in real).

If you look at your Sevcon there is its "Signal Connector" a Tyco 35 pin. The Pin 1 (orange/red) is the Key switch in it comes from the MBB. If you put a switch in this line (best an tactile opener) you can restart the Sevcon while your bike is running (light...). If you use the switch at a nice place you don't have to fiddle with the key!

I have attached a photo of mine the switch is used to switch the bike in revers mode
The second show the red/orange line that I have  used for a different option. Don't be puzzled my hole rear-part is self made and different. Even your Sevcon will have the connector at a different place