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[nil0lab]

Protomech thank you for your detailed information and advice, after doing more research and this wonderful forums advice I’m leaning towards not getting the 2011 S.  ...

Good choice.  I made the mistake of buying a 2011 Zero S with < 400 miles on the odometer for $5K USD.  It never came close to making the advertised range.  To go the distance I bought it to do, about 20% below the advertised range, I have to stop and charge for 40 minutes somewhere along the route.  And that's with keeping the speed to 35-45mph.  Supposedly the bike is under warranty through this month but the local dealer and Zero refuse to do anything about it.  Sure with I'd gotten on this forum first.

[Doctorbass]

When I got my  demo 2011 DS it had about 40km on it if I remember and the battery was able to give me true 60km MAX range and 35km on highway before it cut.

I measured battery energy and got 3000Wh out of the 3900Wh rated....

On my 2012 S I have measured 7650Wh out of 7900 rated Wh but that time, the battery was not empty to 0%.. and it did not cut.... I was just tired of running the bike 30km around my neiborhood to empty the battery to 0%... so I stopped before the battery cut... maybe it would have done 7800Wh or so... wich is excellent!

Doc

[manlytom]

@Doc, didn't you have plans at one stage to build up battery capacity on your 2011? Or to hard even for you ? Easier to get a newer model ? Can't locate this at the moment on here or endlessphere forums.
as we still do not have 2012 or 2013 models I am keen to see how difficult it is to extend the range.

[hungff77]

I also got a 2011 XU, it runs flawless so far. The range is 25km each charge. I find I have improved range after let the bike plugged in for 1 winter season. (BTW, I was away from Canada last winter) I only got 20km before.

Anyway, I think the 2011 S, with double the battery of XU, you will get around 50km avg per charge, all depends on the speed and terrain.

For me personally, I really want to see Zero makes improved battery for the older model. So that those older model owner can continue use our bikes with increased range.

[zap mc]

Contacted Zero’s customer service and there is no warranty available for the 2011 Zero S, their advice is to stay clear away from the 2011 technology and wait for a used  2012 Zero S to come available.  That’s advice straight from the manufacturer, he mentioned that the technology in the 2012’s will remain the same until 2016. 

What do you guys think about that comment from Zero?

A company slating their own product! Amazing!
Imagine you were the dealer that had paid zero $10k for this bike and zero undermined your sale in this way?! Scandalous

[NoiseBoy]

Contacted Zero’s customer service and there is no warranty available for the 2011 Zero S, their advice is to stay clear away from the 2011 technology and wait for a used  2012 Zero S to come available.  That’s advice straight from the manufacturer, he mentioned that the technology in the 2012’s will remain the same until 2016. 

What do you guys think about that comment from Zero?

A company slating their own product! Amazing!
Imagine you were the dealer that had paid zero $10k for this bike and zero undermined your sale in this way?! Scandalous

Hardly, Everybody knows that electric bikes are outdated within a year.  If anything it shows they value customer satisfaction over shifting old stock.

[KrazyEd]

It is good for Zero as a BRAND to look for customer service, but, it is difficult enough to get dealers to carry
them in the first place. If the dealers end up with old stock that is of ZERO ( pardon the pun ) value, they will
be gun shy about future inventory. If Zero advises against the purchase, they should offer some sort of credit
on N.O.S. toward new inventory. This way, they keep potential purchasers happy, and, at least a little help to
the dealer. I had a hard time getting the local dealer to sell me one. They had virtually no interest in even
discussing the bike. When I did finally get someone to talk to me, I had to educate them on almost every
aspect of it. 

[zap mc]

[/quote]

Hardly, Everybody knows that electric bikes are outdated within a year.  If anything it shows they value customer satisfaction over shifting old stock.
[/quote]

The relationship is essentially a 3 way one in which every party is supposed to support one another for it to work, by undermining the dealer in this way Zero lose a potential outlet for their product as the dealer is actually the biggest customer the Zero will have and Zero should support the ongoing relationship over one sale. KrazyEd is right that Zero should have found a creative way to make the situation work for all parties instead of bad mouthing their own product and undermining their relationship with the dealer.

The original vision for the product was that you could upgrade it when a new motor or battery was announced making it a truly green product which attracted me and I am sure many other potential buyers to the fold. Its a dark day when a company will not stand by their own unused product and burns bridges with dealers. It would therefore seem that the Zero motorcycle has simply become another throw away electrical commodity rather than the sustainable benchmark it was once touted as. 

[NoiseBoy]

The original vision for the product was that you could upgrade it when a new motor or battery was announced making it a truly green product which attracted me and I am sure many other potential buyers to the fold. Its a dark day when a company will not stand by their own unused product and burns bridges with dealers. It would therefore seem that the Zero motorcycle has simply become another throw away electrical commodity rather than the sustainable benchmark it was once touted as. 

I have to second this. One of the main reasons I bought when I did instead of waiting another couple of years was because Zero had always said I would be able to upgrade components in the future.  When they came out with the totally new bike I was seriously peeved to find that the new motor was not backwards compatible with older models.  I know they have to make major changes to keep progressing at such a fast rate, but there must be a way to maintain long standing customers.  Those of us that can't afford to buy a brand new bike every year at least.

[protomech]

I agree with both of you, zap mc and NoiseBoy. Zero has made rapid improvements in their bikes; in one sense this represents a victory for new/recent customers - imagine if Zero was still selling ~25 hp brushed DC motors today, with 4-5 kWh molicel packs - but in the other sense it hurts both previous customers and dealers with existing inventory.

Large discontinuous advancements are not unprecedented in the motorcycle world. For example, when Ducati introduced the 1199, they surely did not offer to buy back 1198 bikes .. and 1199 parts surely do not bolt right onto the 1198.

So what's different for Zero? Obviously sales (and perhaps margins) are much lower per dealership - it's harder for dealers to eat the cost of depreciation - and the advances are more frequent.

I think this situation will naturally improve; there's been a lot of hints that the 2014 models may share a great deal with the 2013 models, and hopefully some improvements for 2014 can be brought backwards to the 2013 owners.

How can Zero improve this situation for both customers and dealers, while remaining financially solvent?

[zap mc]

I think the original Zero product was great and still do!
It has a big weight advantage over the later heavier bikes.
We all like progress but it is when the factory fail to support older models that it hurts the customer relationship and then the reputation of the brand. Most Japanese bikes still provide parts for their earlier models and by this route still maintain a relationship with the customer where the customer can feel the manufacturer stands by their product with pride and doesn't want to distance themselves from it like ugly ex girlfriend! If Zero were smart they would realise that that cultivating these relationships would lead to an endless revenue stream and a chance to up sell.
Zero are not financially solvent as i see it, they are essentially a bankrupt company in my opinion as sales of bikes could never even cover the wages bill let alone anything else, just multiply the staff count by a typical average wage to have an idea of their running costs then multiply the number of bikes sold by a typical profit and see which total is larger...