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[protomech]

Yes, very true NoiseBoy. And keeping prices the same but making it nicer has certainly been Zero's refrain for a while now.

The Size 6 Zero S with the 2013 gearing should be about as fast as the FX .. ie able to wheelie on demand up to 50 mph or so. It should also be able to beat virtually any gas-powered vehicle on two wheels or four wheels to 60 mph if they're not prepared, ie in launch control mode. So street performance should be covered, as long as you don't care about 150+ mph blasts on "private roads".

The premium sportbike market seems to consist of top speed epeen contests. I don't think Zero can compete there without a significantly more powerful drive system and an aero fairing, which probably are not in the cards for 2014.

In order to sell the bike as a premium product, all of the cheap components have to go. Tires, display, mirrors, seat, suspension, brakes. They already have the LED taillamp, now they need a LED headlamp up front. Styling needs to improve somehow - tough to do with a big black box in the center.

Standard CHAdeMO would also be a nice premium feature. Nissan is preparing to roll out CHAdeMO chargers at 600 of their US dealers, so in a year's time CHAdeMO would provide for relatively easy touring on a ZF11.4 Zero.

We've mostly been talking about the S here, which is indeed Zero's volume seller. What about the DS? And the smaller FX, XU, MX bikes? I can't really think of much to improve for the X-lineup other than a faster charger .. they should have at least the 1.3 kW charger from the S-lineup. A heavy, high-power J1772 charger is probably not necessary for these bikes (or CHAdeMO..)

[NoiseBoy]

It would probably be good sense to drop the MX entirely and keep the FX fairly road focused, with KTM waiting in the wings to launch an electric enduro which Zero will never compete with.

[Marshm]

I guess it depends on what type of motorcycle you are trying to build when making design choices.  Like a more practical commuter, a worthy off road bike, a dual sport, a high power bike where 0-60 times are the measurement of interest, sport touring, and the list goes on.  The bike design is just 1 aspect, another very important aspect is reliability. 
Taking the point of view of a potential buyer interested in a dual sport and off road.  I do online research and find the FX power should be enough, but suspension, weight, and reliability is not good enough.  You can never have too much range, and it varies on the type of use, so it seems to be difficult to know if it is enough. It does appear the existing range makes the bike usable in many situations off road.  If used in sand with a paddle tire, the range would probably not be good enough.   
So based on that, I hope Zero puts a lot of focus on reliability, suspension, and weight reduction for the FX.  I hear the S is the largest selling model but I am interested in the FX not the S.   Maybe they should team up with KTM who has experience with suspension and off road handling, but does not think their electric drivetrain is good enough. 

[firepower]

KTM electric drive train is 300V battery and brushless synchronous motor  totally sealed, its plenty good enough.


http://www.ktm.com/gb/freeride/freeride-e/highlights.html#?custom=true

[trikester]

I ride my FX mostly on dirt and in desert riding I also have many sandy areas. Typically I have range of 70 to 80 miles which for me is plenty of rough terrain riding for one day, so I don't have any issues with the range (see my NoCal & Utah ride data). I would not like to see any more focus on street riding for the FX, as has been suggested, and no additional weight increase for a bigger battery and increased range. The FX is a decent dirt bike now so any degradation in performance there, to accommodate street riding, would be a negative in my book. Actually it is good on the street now but probably doesn't have the range many street riders would like to have.

Dual-sport bikes are for those who want more street than dirt and Zero already has a selection of those. I would like to see the changes in the FX go toward lighter weight while maintaining the range it has now.

Trikester

[NoiseBoy]

KTM electric drive train is 300V battery and brushless synchronous motor  totally sealed, its plenty good enough.


http://www.ktm.com/gb/freeride/freeride-e/highlights.html#?custom=true

How are they building a 300V battery that small with lithium-ion?  Must be pulling quite high C.

[Tudor]

There is a KTM forum for this kind of topics... =P

[Justin Andrews]

Rumor is a 15kWh battery option on the 2014 models.

[Richard230]

Rumor is a 15kWh battery option on the 2014 models.

I like that rumor.   

[protomech]

Hm.. yes I like the idea of a 15 kWh pack.
http://electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=2824.0

The only caveat to a 15 kWh pack built from ~100V modules in parallel - ie Zero's current approach to building large batteries - is that CHAdeMO charge power will not increase, and a 95% CHAdeMO charge will take approximately 90 minutes.

However, Zero could build an AC charger that could charge from two J1772 at once, like Terry's bike. This would give excellent touring capabilities, particularly if paired with an aerodynamic fairing.

[BSDThw]

Was just hanging around at the Zero Homepage.

If you look to the EICM Motorcycle Show you can ask for test-riding ALL models also the MX and X?.

This will not be a 100% sign the MX will be available again but maybe?
   

[dkw12002]

"Wide range of design" along with "improved performance" to me means bigger battery option, faster top speed, longer range,  and not dropping models and maybe even adding  a race bike. Then they would have something for everyone.

[jazclrint]

This is a late reply to Protomech  I know.  As far as a More powerful Zero trumping an Empulse in sale.  Yes I Size 6 controlled lightweight Zero S would take a big bite it wouldn't take all the sales.  There plenty of riders like myself who look at the Zero S's suspension, wheels, tire, and overall stance and say no thank you as we want a proper sportbike.  That is not a Zero S.  A Zero S is the better commuter and is sporty.  A great bike and perfect for many, many people.  But until Zero makes a proper sportbike I don't think the Empulse is in peril.

But that makes me wonder about all of the Empulse and Zero S comparisons.  If you properly compare each bike to it's ICE twin, I don't think they'd show up in the same comparison test.  It makes me wonder why anyone at Zero or Brammo, or dealerships, or any of us would invest too much in comparisons between the two bikes.  Other than being electric, they're not that comparable.  Yes they are close, but truly are for different riders.  IMHO anyway.  Back to the business talk.

Richard230.  As far as Brammo not going racing.  I have had many interviews with Brian and got to know him, and he enjoys my website because it is bench racing talk.  I feel confident in saying he only put the no racing option up to be fair and to help gauge the response he was getting.  Actually, I think any decent survey has to have an option like that to be considered accurate.  If you have listened to my interviews with him you will know how much R&D they get from their racing program.  And Parker is right there with them.  I can't give away too much but at least one important person at Parker is REALLY into the racing.  At this point I think their motto is, "Don't care if the racers don't need/want more power.  We're giving it to them."  The day Brammo ends their racing program is the day they aren't Brammo anymore.  Just a Polaris subsidiary.  But watch closely because I think Brammo's racing program is becoming a racing program.  They have their own official name now.  Hopefully this will lead them to be able to pursue their own funding and not be so dependent on Brammo proper.  Zero has a different approach to this but still gets a lot from their racing.  The Size 6 controller subject would be a moot point if not for the racing this year and Hollywood Electric's custom.

Sorry if I hijacked things a bit.  I should be out riding my MTB, but rain put an end to that.

[Richard230]

I am also sure that Brammo will continue to race also, esbk.co.  When I spoke with Craig, he was very enthusiastic about racing and he is still running the company.  However, from a sales and business standpoint, it is an interesting question if racing is worth the cost and effort and I thought that Brian's poll was worth discussing as every vehicle manufacturer must put a lot of thought into this question.  However, it is very unusual that a vehicle company asks that, or any, question and requests input on an on-line forum. All of the major motorcycle manufacturers come and go and are here and there every year when it comes to racing.  Except maybe Ducati.  I think they have never quit racing, even for a year.  I hear that BMW is pulling the plug on their racing program this year, BTW. They got whatever they wanted out of their racing program and are now moving on - to who knows what?

 I would be very surprised to see Zero go head-to-head with Brammo in a racing program. (I don't think they want to spend the money.)  I think they will continue to run modified production bikes with their staff and a few enthusiastic customers and dealers as a method of testing the bike parts in a way that can't be done on the street.

[NoiseBoy]

Ive heard strong rumours that there is a 70hp RS model for 2014 but don't know any more than that.  Given that the UK staff have little to lose from spilling the beans I'd say there is a good chance its true.