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[nekodan]

I'm surprised that the 2013 Zero Motorcycles product line uses incandescent bulbs for the headlight and turn signals (tail light appears to be LED). I recall seeing a $100 upgrade for turn signals, but I can't seem to find that on the accessories page anymore.

I would think on a vehicle where "every electron counts", the designers would want to maximize efficiency!

Any existing owners considering a home-brew upgrade for LEDs?

[protomech]

Several people here have upgraded to LED turn signals or headlights.

Primary problem with the LED headlights is that they're simply not cost-effective vs our stock 55W halogen lamps.

A popular LED headlight is the Truck-lite Phase 7. They pull about 20W and cost about $200. Quite a bit less than I recall.

Review:
http://bogiesreviews.webs.com/Review%20-%20Phase%207%20LED%20Headlights%20&%20Passing%20Lamps.pdf

Assume we run our bikes for 2 hours - approximately 80 miles @ 40 mph. So the Phase 7 will save about 2 hours x 35 W / say 0.95 DC-DC efficiency = 75 Wh from the battery pack. Maybe enough for an extra mile.

$200 would also buy about 200 Wh of battery additional, at Zero's retail pricing.

I think eventually we'll see stock LED headlamps. The Truck-lite lamps used to be around $600 a couple years back. So prices are dropping fast, presumably as volume goes up. Same for turn signals, though those make even less sense to replace from a power draw perspective.

[firepower]

The only other advantage is zero maintenance, LEDS don't burn out like bulbs do, but it minor issue too, as bulbs last a couple of years.
I would prefer LEDs for Tail and Indicators, maybe Xenon  for headlight as another option.
For a bike being sold as high tech should try and make as efficient as possible while keeping cost low.

[Richard230]

Speaking of LED's, last week a guy on a rolling basket crane (with no driver) motored up the street and replaced the high pressure sodium street light bulb assembly with a new 4 LED assembly on the street light in front of my home.  It is very bright, more so than the HPS lamp, but it has a white light, while the HPS light was pinkish.  I sort of liked the pink light better.   

Back to the subject, I believe that installing an LED headlight is not worth the cost for Zero.  The slight drop in power consumption wouldn't make any noticeable difference in range and the additional cost and installation complexity is more than they want to deal with right now.  And then there is the cost and hassle of getting the LED bulb approved by the DOT.  Harley, BMW and the auto companies can do that, but a small business like Zero probably would prefer to spend their time working on further improvements in power, range, performance and reliability for future model years, than filling out government forms and paying testing labs for product performance reports.

[frodus]

If Zero kept adding things like LED Headlights, higher quality suspension/wheels, helmet lock, J1772, dual front disc brakes, etc etc.... these bikes would go from being $15k to $20k+. I think I agree with Zero.... if you want it, just buy and install it. There's plenty of people that don't mine if it's not LED/HID.

[protomech]

Eventually the costs will come down to the point where the potential value to the buyer is judged to be more than the added cost to the bike. As the manufacturer Zero can benefit from substantial reductions in cost by buying in bulk and designing the equipment as baseline; for example, replacing the Size 4 with a Size 6 controller will likely be a significant development effort ($$$ up front), but the marginal cost of the controller is quite small (retail $925 vs $1195) and the value to the consumer is pretty huge. Enough that numerous people have paid dearly to upgrade their 2012 bikes.

I suspect Zero is also planning out an incremental roadmap for their bikes. I don't think there's any technical reason preventing Zero from shipping the 2013 bikes with a size 6 controller stock. But the motors in 2013 are all-new - in fact, the 2013 bikes as a whole are significant advancements over 2012 - and  I would guess it may be a couple of years before Zero significantly tweaks the motors. Offering a size 6 controller and LED headlamps in 2014 could well be significant inducements to upgrade for people that must have the latest and greatest.. and also get some of us of our 2012 bikes : )

[TargeT]

I talked to the tech, he mentioned it was a cost savings issue, since the drive train & batteries were so expensive, & the prices of these bikes are already pretty  high; they skipped on items like LED lighting to keep the costs lower.

[nekodan]

Great discussion and advice!

I have previously replaced the stock halogens on my Honda VFR with HID bulbs + ballast, so maybe the same sort of thing for the Zero will be a better fit than LEDs.

[Doctorbass]

I received yesyerday my H4 HID 6000K orderd from ebay.

25$ shipped and it does the high and low beam by tilting the lamp with a coil mechanism.

6000K is a great pure White, not purple or bluish.

I will install it tonight and will post picture BEFORE and AFTER

Doc

[TargeT]

I received yesyerday my H4 HID 6000K orderd from ebay.

25$ shipped and it does the high and low beam by tilting the lamp with a coil mechanism.

6000K is a great pure White, not purple or bluish.

I will install it tonight and will post picture BEFORE and AFTER

Doc

5,300k is pure white, 6,000k is a touch blue, but I prefer it personally.

HID ballasts draw a lot of power don't they? I would avoid it for that reason, plus Its my personal pet peve that if you are going to do HID's you H A V E to retro fit the lense in to control the light or your just a raging arsehole that likes to glare blind people.



My truck has 50watt  5,300k HID's retro fitted in from a lexus housing.

[spelunker]

I don't know if this is national, but in Texas, it's illegal to have HIDs unless they are factory installed.

[TargeT]

I don't know if this is national, but in Texas, it's illegal to have HIDs unless they are factory installed.

it should just be illegal out side of projector housings; but this works also... I hate the glare monsters with HID's in factory "reflector" housings.

[kingcharles]

HID ballasts draw a lot of power don't they? I would avoid it for that reason,

The initial draw is higher but once the HID is at working temperature the current draw is actually about 20W lower

[JohnSki]

I would not get so excited about LEDs right now.  There are a number of manufactures that are overdriving the LEDs to get a desired brightness. They also say that it will replace a certain wattage incandescent bulb even though it does not put out the same lumens (light output). Many home LED bulbs have a similar efficiency as a standard compact florescent bulb.

I had some high intensity LED landscape lighting from Westinghouse that had a 1 year warranty. After 2 years all the bulbs appeared dim. I figured if the LED should have had a 100,000 hour lifespan it should have lasted over 22 years at 12 hours a day average. I pulled the bulbs apart and found that they were running the LEDs at 35ma instead of a normal 20 ma.

Very few of the LEDs actually burned out but they all became dimmer ever so slowly. This light dimming might be able to be check with a light meter.

The more that you read about LEDs the more you will see that some manufactures are trying to include a heat sink.  The problem is that not always is the heat sink of the necessary size or shape and fins that are position horizontally will heat the fins above them instead of convecting the heat away from the bulb.