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[Whit]

I just bought a 2011 zero mx used from someone who only had 72 miles on the bike.  It appears that he just bought it three months ago himself but the limited range prevented him from using it for commuting as he had hoped.

I have two questions.  One is regarding customer support.  After five phone calls (and none returned) I finally spoke to someone who offered to mail me a new throttle assembly.  I've had the bike for 10 days and been able to ride it twice, and the "high throttle disable" disabled the bike about a half mile from my house on the second ride.  Now I'm being told it could be five business days (read: one week) before I get the part I need to fix my bike.  Is this typical?  I've had things overnighted to me numerous times under warranty from other companies.  Anyone have a suggestion?

My second question is this:  I cannot get the battery to fully charge.  It's been plugged in constantly other than the two rides (8 and 5 miles) and every day when I get home from work the charger is giving the red flashing error signal.  I unplug and reset the BMS, but for ten days now it still fails to charge completely, although the bike's LCD shows a full charge if I turn on the bike.  I'm new to this, but I'd like to know if the pack can be restored to full health.

Thanks for any help in advance.  Glad I found the forum.

[jazclrint]

Just going on reputation as I am not an owner, Zero is a very small company and has a bit of a reputation of shipping things slowly in certain circles.  Most people are very satisfied with their service, but it seems to take them a bit of time.  They are in the middle of probably their busiest year ever as far as production is concerned so I think your fellow Zero owners would ask that you be patient and tell you that it is worth the wait.

Out of curiosity what are you going to use it for?

I hope this helps,
Rich

[Whit]

Thanks for your reply.

I live in a beach community, and a lot of my activities are within 2-6 miles of home.  We also have state lands next to our property that I plan to ride on and an electric bike should minimize any disturbance of my neighbors who also border the land.

That is, if the throttle gets shipped.  The rep I spoke to yesterday emailed me for my shipping information and told me he would call me back as well.  I never heard from him.  I just feel like I'm pestering them, but the bikes been down for five days and I still haven't had confirmation that a warranty part is coming.  I bought an electric bike partly to avoid maintenance issues.

I hope that they will step up to the plate on this and make it right.  No matter how much the speed and range of their bikes improves, if they don't stand behind their product with service, they won't be in business long.  And that won't be good for me or anyone else.

[protomech]

The charger may flash a number of times in a sequence - for example, 4 flashes then pause, repeat. What is the sequence?

Edit: apologies if a stupid question, but you are plugging the charger into the battery before you plug AC power into the charger correct?

[Whit]

I'll check the sequence today.  I have plugged the charger both ways, but the last few times it has been bike connection after plugging the BMS into the wall socket.

[protomech]

I think the charger will not work properly if you plug it into the wall before you plug it into the bike/battery. IIRC.

[trikester]

Because I just received my 2013 FX powertrain kit (for my trike conversion) I had some questions about the standalone Delta-Q charger that comes with it. One of the replies that I received from Zero engineering was that there should not be a difference in which connection is made first. They have not observed any difference in their use of the chargers. They also mentioned (knowing that I read this forum) that they were working on figuring out why you experienced a difference in your situation.

Just my thoughts: It could be a very difficult thing to diagnose if they can't get the same thing to occur at Zero's engineering, made even more difficult by the fact that they didn't design and manufacture the chargers. I would guess that there is a lot of "head scratching" going on right now at Zero and Delta-Q.

It could be a result of the sequence in which the connector pins make contact, varying from connector to connector.

I can't imagine one of the big motorcycle manufacturers telling one customer that they had what appeared to be a unique problem with another customer's bike and they were trying to solve it. In my 78 years of life experience I've found that I would rather deal with a small company, any day, as opposed to a big company. Big companies tend to ignore "unique" problems. How many times have we been told by a big corporation: "We've never seen that problem before (meaning it doesn't exist, you're completely wrong, probably even stupid, don't know what you're talking about, so go away)".

Trikester

[BSDThw]

there should not be a difference in which connection is made first

I agree there might be only one problem you can switch between different charging algorithm of the Delta-Q when you plug in the grid first and do some special connection at the out put.

It should not happen but by bad look it could change the algorithm!

I got a "manual" when I bought my additional chargers.

[trikester]

I didn't get a manual but I got a couple of sheets with some algorithm changing info and the description of the LED charging indications (which it doesn't follow at all, and Zero is aware of the discrepancy).

Even though it shouldn't make a difference, I will be more comfortable by connecting the battery first and then the AC power. I'm more comfortable because normally, with the built-in charger it is always connected to the battery when ever the AC is applied. So I will duplicate, when using the external charger, what the charger in the bike sees.

Trikester

[Whit]

In response to the charger error, it is three red flashes, which indicates either high temperature or timeout failure to reach voltage in the battery according to the manual.  It has now done this for 12 consecutive days, and takes roughly 24 hours to do so.  It flashes 80% charged and then charging flashing yellow light when reset.

I still haven't heard back from the rep I spoke to, and could not get through yesterday.

Advice?

[BSDThw]

Hi Whit,

Do you have a Voltmeter and the Skill to use it?

If so, I would disconnect the Charger and measure the Voltage at the plug.
And let the battery unconnected for some hour and measure it again.

It would give you the feedback if the battery has a problem and will not hold/reach the end of charging Voltage.

If you can do so maybe PM "Doctorbass" he has a lot of battery skills. I have only experience with my 2012 DS. And don't know exactly what Values are to expect.
   

[Whit]

I do have a voltmeter, but I wouldn't call myself an electrician. 

The new throttle came today.  It had a bad connector, so now I'm waiting on another replacement.  Any other thoughts on the charging?  It's been 13 consecutive days now with the timeout error.

Thanks-

Whit

[protomech]

When you plug in the charger it takes 24h to flash the lights? Even after it had been sitting on the charger for a while before you plugged it in?

Maybe there's a balance cycle that starts 24h after plugin and a weak cell shows up.

[Whit]

The charger (BMS) does a test first, and it appears that the battery is 80% charged.  It then flashes the yellow charging light.  This continues for somewhere between 18-24 hours.  I don't know exactly how long, but when I get home from work in the evening, the red light is flashing the "charger timeout/high temperature" sequence.  The motorcycle's dash display shows a full battery, but the BMS, when reset, shows 80% charged and starts charging again.  I have yet to get a green "fully charged" indicator from the BMS.

[Harlan]

What's the pack voltage?