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[WindRider]

In the 2012 Zero DS owners manual Zero suggests that the motorcycle should be plugged in immediately after riding and the batteries should not be left in a discharged state.

Where I live my power company offers lower cost power after 9 PM at night.   If I get home anywhere from 6-8 PM and do not immediately plug in the bike to start the charging process are there any negative effects to the battery pack long or short term?

[protomech]

The bike should be fine if you leave it unplugged for a few days at 50%. The 2012 manual says to plug it in at least once a week, or within 24 hours if discharged down to cutoff.

Self-discharge for the 2012 bikes (presumably 2013s too?) should be very low, perhaps 1% per day or so.

[WindRider]

Thanks for the reply ProtoMech.

Really glad that I found this forum full of knowledgeable, helpful people.

[NoiseBoy]

I have done 2000 miles only charging between midnight and 7am for the same reason as you and i haven't noticed any issues.

[ColoPaul]

I often let my Bike sit for ~16 hours at 80% charge.   So far, no noticeable issues.

I charge at work, then ride home and then back the next morning and charge again.  It saves me pennies but I like the feeling of making my employer pay for my "fuel"  .   I let it sit all weekend at home plugged in, and of course it's plugged in at work for 8-10 hours straight each weekday.  Hopefully that's enough for balancing.

[Doctorbass]

All Lithium battery chemistry like LiMn ( Zero 2008 -2011) and LiPo ( sero 2012 and 2013) have a “more confortable” SOC area at about 40-60% SOC. Keeping any lithium powered device fully charged  all the time will oxidize the electrode and cells will loose capacity and have an increase of internal resistance.

The problem  of leaving a empty battery not charged  for long period is that the BMS that continuously draw current on it might bleed the cells too low and make the BMS cut and refuse to charge due to low voltage cut off detection and hysteresis that make the cell to not comeback to acceptable voltage above the low voltage cut.

This often happen with lithium power tools.

I have my 2011 DS  Battery that I charge once a month to ensure it is to about 60% SOC and it work great.  The battery self discharge is really  low .  I have the last BMS version o fthe 2011 I installed on it

I would not leave it fully charged and connected for long period.

Doc

[Richard230]

Then why does Zero recommend that you always keep the charger plugged in all of the time you are not riding the bike? 

[firepower]

because it safer and more range when fully charged as opposed to left discharge and batteries go flat, if li-ion go too low charger won't charge. This has happened to some Tesla cars left at long term parking at airports. Very expensive fix as better pack needs replacing. The oxidation problem is if left permanently on charge for months or years with no discharge like some laptops plunged in 24/7 for months at a time.
I don't think it be problem if you ride your bike often.

[WindRider]

I like that theory:  just ride more!

[protomech]

Then why does Zero recommend that you always keep the charger plugged in all of the time you are not riding the bike?

Cynical view: Zero has fewer support issues if batteries degrade slightly more quickly over 5-8 years than they do if batteries over-discharge while sitting off charge.

The simplest way to ensure battery safety is to keep the bike plugged in whenever possible. Floating the battery at a mid SOC is probably even better, but may not make that much difference if you ride every day. My bike's battery spends half its time at or charging to 100% and half its time around 70%.

It'd be nice to see two modes for charging, "max longevity" that stops charge at 4.0 or 4.1v per cell and "max range" that stops charging at 4.2v.

[Doctorbass]

Yeah, I agree, it depend ALOT of the period cycle  of use. mine is 6 month a year in teh garage waiting to have our Canadian winter to finish .. I just can't leave it connected all teh time to not prematurely damage  the cells.

I observed that the vinal voltage i get on myne with all the cells well  balanced is about 4.15V and not 4.20. this help a bit at least to prolong the battery life.

See mt 1 to 32s battery checker i made to test and monitor all my EV... I connected it to the adaptor i made on my zero and it show in real time all voltages of my 14 battery banks

Doc

[WindRider]

Interesting responses.   

For winter storage would it be best to leave the bike plugged in all winter or unplug it for a couple of weeks and let the voltage fall a little?

Probably best to load the bike up and head somewhere more Southerly so that it can be ridden a little mid winter?    Someone please recommend this as the best thing to do with a Zero in the interest of battery health and longevity!

[Richard230]

According to my 2012 Zero S owner's manual (page 2.2):

4.  The Zero S/DS power pack should be plugged in when storing the motorcycle for extended periods of time.

5.  Keep your Zero S/DS connected to the charger when your motorcycle is sitting in storage or if it will be sitting unused for more than 7 days.

The power pack must be charged within 24 hours if fully discharged, and charged within 60 days if stored fully charged.  Zero recommends that you plug in your Zero motorcycle after 7 days even if charged. Please leave your Zero motorcycle plugged in whenever possible.

6.   The power pack does not require or tolerate deep discharging.  To get the most power pack life, recharge each power pack immediately after each ride.  Leaving a power pack in a discharged state will cause damage.

So it sounds to me like Zero is pretty clear about wanting the bike to be on the charger all the time, including during long-term storage (although that comment about charging it within 60 days is a little confusing). 

[nicktulloh]

I keep my 'regular' bike batteries on Battery Tenders all winter. It's like a little forest of green lights in the barn. I know it's completely different technology, and I'm not educated enough on the subject yet to understand the benefits of floating a mid-charge on these things as some recommend, but I'm going to follow the manual and leave my '12 DS9 plugged in all the time unless I see hard evidence that the manufacturer is wrong.

[dahlheim]

i ride my bike at least a few times per week, but my typical commute takes only two bars off the gauge round-trip.  according to the manual, i then leave it plugged in at home.  so, it's usually at 100% and not very frequently below 9 bars, which must be above 70%.  i've read a lot of doc's posts out of interest in learning, so i know the guy has real chops with this stuff.  at the moment, i don't have any real way of maintaining a partial charge anyway, so i guess i'll also just follow zero's instructions till i hear good evidence/plan otherwise.

as an aside, i had to smile a couple of days ago when this couple were just strolling diagonally across a parking lot blocking my path and i finally just had to call out "excuse me" so they knew i was there.  tooooo quiet.  i felt like a toot on the horn would have been too disruptive.