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[trikester]

They are already make a semi-dirt bike with a low seat Trikester, the DS.  The amount of people that would want a proper off road capable electric bike with low ground clearance is very small indeed.  Just look at KTM, they are probably the company most famous in the world for dirt bikes and even their 125cc model is very tall.

I already have two DS's. I like my FX as a lighter and better performing dirt bike than the DS's, but there are a lot of people, as I have said, that cannot fit on it. Of course everything is a compromise but that shouldn't stop development of a model that would expand the market. I think Yamaha has been cranking out TW200's since about 1983 and they are still cranking them out, because a lot of people can ride them. Of course they are not for the super serious dirt rider but there are a lot more recreational dirt riders than the super serious. If you are not doing big jumps and catching big air you don't need massive amounts of suspension travel. It would be interesting to know how many hundreds of thousands, or millions, of those bikes have been sold by Yamaha. Plus a lower FX would outperform the TW200 any day.

Trikester

[s44captain]

I'd like to see the 2014 keep the 110 charging and add a level 2 J17 port. I'd also like to see the fake radiator shrouds go away. I know beauty is in the mind of the beholder and I am not falling in love with the 2013 looks. I find the Empulse very appealing to my eye but prefer the light weight and more silent riding of the Zero. What's nice is that the 2013s are not drawing the bucks out of my wallet so I am not going to mind hanging on to my 2012 for another year. I do hope both Zero and Brammo have record sales as I'd love to see what comes next!

[jazclrint]

I think we'll see minor evolutions, but nothing big.  It seems to me the board will want to start recouping R&D money.  I don't see the charging options changing.  Although, a 3kW charger and J1772 socket standard would be a nice and give it an advantage if competing with the Empulse.  I definitely don't see the motor changing, it's pretty badass.  The battery pack might grow a bit bigger though.  Not a lot, just a bit.  I definitely see a size 6 controller coming stock if Hollywood Electrics starts selling their upgrade kit in decent numbers. 

As far wants, the S has got to start coming with real wheels and tires.  I know the bias ply tires on the bike are really good, and you can spoon on a 140 radial on the back, but you are still pinching tires, and bias-ply tires are not radials not matter how you slice it.  A 120/160 tire combo for the S (which would mean a frame and swingarm revision) with an upgraded controller and some custom suspension sounds like an actual Empulse killer.  With a Size 6-controller I'd like to see Zero take a real shot at making the DS knock the NC-700 and all those other middle weight adventure bikes to the floor.  Ultimately I'd love to see Zero taking BMW head on in the adventure bike segment.  Maybe not in range, but just in out right performance.  With the addition of their newest board member, I think they now have all the know-how to do just that.

[protomech]

The difference in cost between a sevcon size 4 and a size 6 controller is pretty small, maybe $100 at OEM prices. There will be a significant amount of validation and testing work to be done for sure - maybe Hollywood Electrics has already done this? or Zero already has and HE has early access? - but even with that rolled in the cost will surely be less than upgrading the controller on the aftermarket.

It also makes for a smoother upgrade path, and a compelling reason to upgrade to the 2014 bikes from the 2013.

[nicktulloh]

I don't think it would be possible for me to be less interested in ABS and radial tires.

All I care about for improvement is range, range, range. Oh, and range.

[trikester]

I don't think it would be possible for me to be less interested in ABS and radial tires.

All I care about for improvement is range, range, range. Oh, and range.

I can't imagine why I would want any more power or acceleration than I have on my 2013 FX with its size 4 controller. I go with "nicktulloh's statement quoted above.

Even though I prefer riding the FX for its handling and performance, especially in the dirt, I'll be keeping my 2012 DS ZF6 for the longer fire-road and highway rides, solely because of its extra range. When I go to spend my annual week in the Klamath Forest this June, riding fire-roads, I'll be taking the 2012 DS instead of my new 2013 FX because I need the greater range. How I would love to have my newest Zero instead 

Trikester

[WindRider]

I was on the fence between a 2012 DS or the 2013 FX.   I really wanted the FX for the new motor and real tire sizes but they kept making me better deals on the the 2012 until I finally jumped with the cash for carbon deal. 

Now that I have 1300 miles on my 2012 DS I am glad that I got the ZF9 over the FX just for the range.   The range is a big deal for these bikes the way that I ride and more range would be really nice.   

[NoiseBoy]

Ultimately I'd love to see Zero taking BMW head on in the adventure bike segment.  Maybe not in range, but just in out right performance.  With the addition of their newest board member, I think they now have all the know-how to do just that.

That is precisely the opposite of what they should be doing imo.  You will never sell an electric bike to an adventure bike rider because they want to be able to ride 1000 miles in a day and EV tech is a long long way from that.   They are upmarket commuter bikes imo.  Akin to the Honda Hornet 600, GSR750, Suzuki Bandit, Yamaha Fazer etc.  Most of the people i know that ride bikes will only start paying attention to my funny electric bike when it is faster than their GSXR on the local hooning roads.  Its sad but true.  When this happens they won't care how far it goes and the range anxiety problem is solved.

[protomech]

Even though I prefer riding the FX for its handling and performance, especially in the dirt, I'll be keeping my 2012 DS ZF6 for the longer fire-road and highway rides, solely because of its extra range. When I go to spend my annual week in the Klamath Forest this June, riding fire-roads, I'll be taking the 2012 DS instead of my new 2013 FX because I need the greater range. How I would love to have my newest Zero instead 

Trikester

I'm a little surprised that you see significantly more range on the DS.

Zero says 75 miles city / 42 combined for the 2012 DS ZF6.
http://www.zeromotorcycles.com/zero-ds/2012/specs.php

Zero says 70 miles city / 43 combined for the 2013 FX ZF5.7
http://www.zeromotorcycles.com/zero-fx/specs.php

Maybe the city riding difference is magnified at lower dirt speeds?

[jazclrint]

Ultimately I'd love to see Zero taking BMW head on in the adventure bike segment.  Maybe not in range, but just in out right performance.  With the addition of their newest board member, I think they now have all the know-how to do just that.

That is precisely the opposite of what they should be doing imo.  You will never sell an electric bike to an adventure bike rider because they want to be able to ride 1000 miles in a day and EV tech is a long long way from that.   They are upmarket commuter bikes imo.  Akin to the Honda Hornet 600, GSR750, Suzuki Bandit, Yamaha Fazer etc.  Most of the people i know that ride bikes will only start paying attention to my funny electric bike when it is faster than their GSXR on the local hooning roads.  Its sad but true.  When this happens they won't care how far it goes and the range anxiety problem is solved.

Yes but Zero doesn't make sport bikes.  Leave the liter slayer to Brammo and eCRP, I say.  But Zero's (perceived?) strong point is off road ability.  Not sure where I heard it but I believe the adventure bike segment is out selling sportbikes right now.  And I know that these folks will want the ability to do 1000 miles a day, but how many actually ever see the dirt?  We can't push battery tech any further than it is being pushed.  But everything else is fair game.  So my thinking was making a "cool" adventure bike is the off road wannabe equivalent of making a liter slayer for the sportbike guys that can't take a corner.

[trikester]

I'm a little surprised that you see significantly more range on the DS.

Zero says 75 miles city / 42 combined for the 2012 DS ZF6.
http://www.zeromotorcycles.com/zero-ds/2012/specs.php

Zero says 70 miles city / 43 combined for the 2013 FX ZF5.7
http://www.zeromotorcycles.com/zero-fx/specs.php

Maybe the city riding difference is magnified at lower dirt speeds?

Well I don't have much data yet for the new FX but just from the highway ride I did to cutoff (46 mi) I would guess that I could have had 10 or 15 more miles on the 2012 DS ZF6

More riding on the FX will better tell what the difference is and also the FX mileage should come up some after more battery use and bearings break-in. The DS mileage did.

It could turn out to be a better match between the two bikes after more riding. It would be interesting to do identical rides on the two on the same day in light conditions.

Trikester