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[spelunker]

Okay, so I have been doing a little reading about Lithium batteries and extreme temperatures.  I have a 2013 Zero S coming next month and was wondering about riding in the Dallas/Ft. Worth area in the summer heat (many days are 104ºF or higher).  Should I be concerned about shorter battery life?

[Richard230]

Okay, so I have been doing a little reading about Lithium batteries and extreme temperatures.  I have a 2013 Zero S coming next month and was wondering about riding in the Dallas/Ft. Worth area in the summer heat (many days are 104ºF or higher).  Should I be concerned about shorter battery life?

Somewhere in the 2012 Zero forum there is considerable discussion regarding this topic by Zero owners in Florida, Texas and Arizona.  Naturally, these discussions took place last summer.  My recollection is that no one has ever experienced a problem with the batteries getting too hot, although there was a lot of concern about this issue.  I don't think you have anything to worry about as long as the temperature doesn't go above 150 degrees.   

[s44captain]

I have gotten my best range on days over 90 degrees. My wife and I did a 55 mile 2 up ride in the desert mountains with 3 bars left on a 6kw Zero. This winter in 30 degrees I did a solo 24 mile ride and had the same 3 bars left. My money is on you getting better range in the heat!

[spelunker]

But, doesn't heat shorten lithium battery lifespan?

[Richard230]

But, doesn't heat shorten lithium battery lifespan?

Only if they happen to be installed on Boeing Dreamliners.   

[benswing]

Also, if you are concerned due to the Nissan Leaf in Arizona thing, that only happened to  a handful of Leafs (out of hundreds) and they had been driven MUCH farther than originally expected in temps in the 120's. 

There is no need to be concerned unless you are going to perpetually drive your Zero across the desert at a high rate of speed throughout the entire summer.

[protomech]

Heat will definitely shorten lithium battery lifespan. Question is how much.

I did a little bit of testing in AL this last summer, when temps were up in the 105F range. Exterior sun-facing battery chassis temps were up around 125-130F. Cell temperature sensors were reading 2-10F below the sun-facing exterior chassis temp.

Zero says the 2012 battery pack will be disabled above 71C / 160F. EIG (2012 cells) lists the maximum temperature at 55C / 131F for discharge and storage .. it's not clear whether EIG is referring to long-term storage and Zero has tested the cells for several-hour durations at higher temperatures.

This summer I will probably try to park where I will have afternoon-shade coverage during 105+ temp days. But I won't worry about it if shade parking is unavailable.

I don't know how the Farasis cells for the 2013 bikes will behave.

[Richard230]

Speaking of the Farasis cells in the new 2013 Zeros, I have never heard of the company before.  Do you have an opinion about them Protomech?  As near as I can tell, the EIG cells seem to be pretty robust.  Terry (offthegrid) seems to be beating the crap out of his batteries (especially when charging) and his pack appears to be holding up well.  I would like to think that the Farasis cells are just as good.

[Lipo423]

Lithium batteries have a kind of strange behaviour...from one hand they like to work under hot temperatures (they perform far better), but from another hand they do not like to be left/exposed in the "sun", or to be charged when they are hot (after being used), or under high ambience temperatures...sometimes when this is done the cells become unstable and there is a chemical reactions that could produce "puffing" (the cells inflate a little)...if you would go further the cells would be damaged.
These are cases where very high temperature has been achieved (charging+very high ambience temperature for example), which would be a very rare case in our bikes.

Our bike BMS should not let this happen, but let's be careful anyway.

[TargeT]

Yesterday I was riding my FX (very possibly responds differently to heat) and I got the "temp warning" gauge while going 75-80mph  (trying to drain my battery below 30% usage before I got to work) for about 5 min, I slowed down to 55-60 mph and the light went away....

it was around 81* and humid when this happened..


that evenining (after work) as I rode home the throttle quit responding and I had to get the bike with my truck... not sure if it's related to the earlier heat issue, I doubt it is.

[Lipo423]

TargeT,
I also doubt it is because of that...what happened to you the first time is quite normal, as probably the motor became too hot (the new motors and the "passive" cooling system will produce this effect in hot temperatures or intensive use).
You cannot double power without facing termal challenges (within pretty much the same motor enclosure size)
Please report what the problem was...I'm curious