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[Electric Terry]

And it took 4th overall!



I'll post more here soon but for now there's more on the Off The Grid page: http://www.facebook.com/lifeoffthegrid


Theres  a pretty good pic of the Brammo Girls with the Zero there too.  It's a long story about that, lol

.

[Richard230]

Congratulations OTG!     That is great news. Keep up the good work.  No doubt you will be back with a 2013 model next year.   

[ColoPaul]

Awesome!

[Electric Terry]

Jeremiah Johnson and I talking with evmotorcycle.org and esbk.co at the track

[manlytom]

great - and it is street legal, runs, is fun , all in the same package. how are your brakes ?

[Electric Terry]

Haha the brakes, long story.  Actually we had to put a Brembo loaded caliper off a Brammo Empulse RR on the Zero because we couldn't get pads for the Zero and the shipping department at Zero messed up and never sent the package I paid over $200 to have overnighted to the track with taller gearing, brake pads etc. by Saturday morning.  But their shipping department has messed up so many times it didn't suprise me.  When I tried to call friday afternoon to double check it was sent so one at zero answered.  I knew something bad was going to happen then.  The guys at Brammo and Catavolt pitched in Sunday moments before the race and helped us get their parts mounted and bled so we wouldn't have to sit the race out.

You can read more here:
http://esbk.co/2012/10/23/wanna-race-in-the-ttxgp-next-year-for-less-than-racing-in-the-amas-xr1200-class-without-having-to-build-a-bike/

[ZeroSinMA]

Haha the brakes, long story.  Actually we had to put a Brembo loaded caliper off a Brammo Empulse RR on the Zero because we couldn't get pads for the Zero and the shipping department at Zero messed up and never sent the package I paid over $200 to have overnighted to the track with taller gearing, brake pads etc. by Saturday morning.  But their shipping department has messed up so many times it didn't suprise me.  When I tried to call friday afternoon to double check it was sent so one at zero answered.  I knew something bad was going to happen then.  The guys at Brammo and Catavolt pitched in Sunday moments before the race and helped us get their parts mounted and bled so we wouldn't have to sit the race out.

You can read more here:
http://esbk.co/2012/10/23/wanna-race-in-the-ttxgp-next-year-for-less-than-racing-in-the-amas-xr1200-class-without-having-to-build-a-bike/

First of all, congrats on the race. Next year with Zero's bigger bike you'll come in second and year after that first. 

Don't want to turn a thread about your exciting acheivement into a Zero complaint thread about their parts and shipping but it's a joke and they have to fix it. For example, ordered a summer screen with my 2012 Zero S. I ordered the same screen off Amazon for my 2011. It showed up two days later in a box and took me 30 minutes to install. But when I ordered the same sceen a with my bike 2012 purchase, not only was the screen I paid for not installed when I got the bike, but after a dozen emails and phone calls and false starts it finally showed up... I'm not making this up... two months after I got the bike.

If not for the Brammo team, Zero's goofy parts and shipping dept. might have cost you a chance to run in the race. Needs to be addressed.

[NoiseBoy]

Great story.  Is the bike standard except for the brakes?  Surprised you found a caliper just by chance as it looks like an odd size unit.  I wouldn't mind upgrading the brakes on mine.

[wainair]

Congrats! That's a great showing!

[Richard230]

Speaking of ordering things from Zero, 8 months ago I ordered, via Zero's store website and my dealer, a Zero-brand polo shirt.  It was out of stock and I am still waiting for it to be delivered to my dealer so that I can pay for it. My guess is that my order has been lost.  I figure that when I finally get the invitation to visit the Zero factory, I will try to buy it there, although I will probably be sent back to my dealer to purchase the item.  Maybe I can hand-carry it to my dealer so that they will actually have the shirt to sell to me.   

When I had a signal flasher failure, my dealer tried to get the part from Zero for over a month before they finally gave up and pulled one from a 2011 bike that they had in the showroom.  Zero really needs to get their parts and accessory department in order.  I mentioned this problem when I talked to Mr. Walker over the phone earlier this year and he was surprised as he said that the factory had tons of replacement parts on the shelves and he couldn't imagine why it would be a problem ordering and receiving replacement parts and accessories with a fast turnaround. He said he would check into it.  I guess someone in the shipping department spun him around and sent him back out the door if it is still going on.   

[protomech]

First of all, congrats on the race. Next year with Zero's bigger bike you'll come in second and year after that first.

I think the Zero has a good shot at beating the Empulse TTX on the track next year. The prototype bikes are hugely more expensive and hugely faster than the street bikes, though.

Here's a short clip of a ~150 hp ~160 mph Empulse RR pulling a pass on a ~40 hp ~100 mph Zero S at Daytona.

[dahlheim]

what mods were made to the suspension?  sounds like a lot, from how JJ's talking.  this is an area i've got on the list for improvements on my 12ds9 at some point.

[ZeroSinMA]

First of all, congrats on the race. Next year with Zero's bigger bike you'll come in second and year after that first.

I think the Zero has a good shot at beating the Empulse TTX on the track next year. The prototype bikes are hugely more expensive and hugely faster than the street bikes, though.

Here's a short clip of a ~150 hp ~160 mph Empulse RR pulling a pass on a ~40 hp ~100 mph Zero S at Daytona.

Not Apples and Apples to race a production bike against a prototype built for racing. I'm glad Zero doesn't waste money building show bikes for racing/marketing but funnels all R&D dollars into making the commercially available bikes better and better every year.  If Brammo tried to sell these prototypes they'd have to charge north of $30,000 to break even. Ironically, within a few years Zero's revenue-generating commercially available < $15,000 bikes will beat Brammo's money-losing prototype/show bikes even on the track. At which point it will be Game Over for Brammo, if not sooner.

[wainair]

I love the sound of that! So cool! Way cooler than the sound of a tuned race ICE bike. That makes a straight piped Hog sound like a braying donkey! 

[protomech]

Not Apples and Apples to race a production bike against a prototype built for racing.

True. I'd like to see grid sizes in TTXGP improve to the point where the prototypes can be separate from the street bikes.

If Brammo tried to sell these prototypes they'd have to charge north of $30,000 to break even.

Ah.. at least as much as Lightning, for sure. And Lightning is using a production electric motor vs a prototype electric motor..

Ironically, within a few years Zero's revenue-generating commercially available < $15,000 bikes will beat Brammo's money-losing prototype/show bikes even on the track. At which point it will be Game Over for Brammo, if not sooner.

     

It'd be awesome if/when electrics develop to the point where you could buy a 120 kW race-ready bike for < $15k. I think we're a little ways off from that yet .. like 7-10 years away .. but rapidly improving, as Zero is showing.

Big costs that can come down to bring race-level power to street bikes:

1. Controller. Brammo, MotoCzysz, and Lightning (IIRC) all use a Rinehart motor controller. This is uber-powerful, and uber-expensive. Sevcon Size 6 is around $1000 (IIRC). Rinehart is around $8000-10000. I don't know what controller Brammo is using .. but the PM150 Rinehart is 450A RMS continuous up to 360V DC. The Sevcon Size 4 Zero uses is 140A RMS continuous up to 116V DC.

2. Motor. Brammo uses a prototype Parker GVM motor, Parker says 130 kW. Because it's a prototype it's basically unobtanium, but figure it'll cost a few grand when it goes into production. Lightning uses a Remy HVH250 motor, online pricing $8-9k. In comparison, a stock ME0913 is around $800. Plus, the huge motors need much better cooling systems.

3. Batteries - 10C is pretty strong discharge for non-lipo. Brammo and Lightning are both packing 14+ kWh into their bikes. EIG pouch cells (as in the 2012 Zero) are rated for 10C peak, 5C continuous.. so you'd need at least 12 kWh (ZF14.5 in Zero parlance) to power the motor.

4. Data acq systems. Brammo and Lightning both use Motec dashes iirc. $$$, awesome for prototype systems. Brammo and Zero both already have more basic data acquisition systems in their street bikes .. good enough for a street type superbike.

The fancy brakes and suspension bits, wheels, etc are probably about as cheap as they're going to get. CF fairings might get a little cheaper.

In 10 years time .. I'd expect to see 120 kW controllers going for around $1000, big motors going for a couple thousand, 20 kWh battery packs for < $5000. So maybe in 10 years we'll have superbike performance at the $15k price point .. but not in 2-3 years.