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[Biff]

... J1772 relies on an onboard charger in all applications.  Its just that with cars, it's not much of a compromise to install a larger, level 2 charger.

I did not realize that. I thought that the electronics for the charger were in the head units that came with L1 and L2 J1772 cords. I guess that is just the circuit safety electronics in there. There definitely more room in a car for bulky charging hardware. Well charge times weren't that bad on the bikes anyways...

Yep, the current J1772 stations are essentially 110/220V AC plugs with some safety features and interlocks built in.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SAE_J1772  

If you think of the economics of a J1772 station, that allows someone to charge you money for their electricity, it takes a lot of charging to get a return on their investment. They could have just installed a freely available 220V plug (like a dryer plug) with a J1172 handle attached to it, and not charged for their electricity, and probably loose less money than it would have cost to install an official J1772 station, but had more happy customers in their shops buying their goods / services.  

The new J1772 Combo connector has both AC power, but DC Charging as well,  http://ev.sae.org/article/11005  .  There are a few companies supporting this new SAE plug, but from what I remember, none of those companies actually have any plug in vehicles yet.

The Tesla Supercharger is a DC Charger, not just a plug, but it is different than Chademo.  Tesla wanted more power than the Chademo standard offered, so they are doing their own thing.

-ryan

[protomech]

The ChaDeMo charging is the game-changer. There is simply no comparison to charging from 240V, 30A to 480V, 125A. If you stop at a ChaDeMo charger it will be like stopping for gas.

The ZF11.4 probably doesn't pull more than about 40A .. at least averaged over the 1 hour charge time. I wonder if it charges the lower half of the pack harder.

Not quite like stopping for gas, but still.. you get about 30 minutes of 70 mph highway riding per 30 minutes of charging, or about 60 minutes of 45-55 mph riding per 30 minutes of charging.

[ZeroSinMA]

Any announcement from Brammo at the show or just more of the same, all talk no action?

By my count they are now two generations behind Zero. They never delivered the Inertia Plus that was supposed to compete with the 2012 Zero ZF9. Now they have to beat the 2013 lineup.

I'll repeat my forecast.

[protomech]

Both Brammo and Zero are supposed to be at Intermot, which starts 10/3 IIRC. We'll see if they announce an updated release date for the Empulse at that point. They've badly missed the June delivery date for the Empulse R.

The Enertia Plus was pretty competitive with the 2012 Zero lineup - faster than the XU, more capacity, range, and cheaper than the ZF6 S.

Zero dropped the lower-capacity S with the 2013 bikes, and instead added a higher capacity XU. The 2013 XU ZF5.7 is much faster than the Enertia Plus (77 mph 21 kW vs 60+ mph 13 kW), lighter, and gets similar range.. maybe better range real-world. And it's $500 less expensive.

Edit: I've started a thread on reddit here.

[Vertigo1]

Sorry to go against the grain, but I don't see much change here.

Almost double the power
~50% more energy
Standard wheel sizes
Better aesthetics
J1772 and Chademo charging

• Smartphone interfacing

[Richard230]

Well, you have to admit that Brammo has some nice looking girls to keep you entertained while waiting for the Empulse to arrive.   

[Richard230]

I found this feature mentioned in the press release interesting:  Using Bluetooth, riders can now sync their iPhone or Android mobile phones to see detailed motorcycle information and even adjust the performance characteristics of the motorcycle.  I think Zero is the first motorcycle manufacturer that I have heard of that provides a way to adjust the performance characteristics of their product.     That takes a certain amount of guts and confidence in the knowledge of their customers to not make unsafe modifications to the bike's programming.  The Electric Cowboy ought to love this feature.   

[ZeroSinMA]

Well, you have to admit that Brammo has some nice looking girls to keep you entertained while waiting for the Empulse to arrive.   

I doubt investors are amused by all the money that goes into the talent and racing spectacle that would be better spent on creating an actual product that can be sold to generate actual revenue.

[Daveruns]

OK, I take back my negativity on the 2013 designs. I now understand that they moved to a passive cooling on the motor, that is a big change in my mind. Plus the addition of the cell phone app and I am assuming that zero to sixty is much faster with the more powerful motor, so I stand corrected. Letting my present problems get in the way of my wider vision.

Brammo does have the girls, too bad they can't seem to ship any bikes....

[Richard230]

Live for Physics, who seems to know a lot about Zero motorcycles, had this comment on the El Moto forum:  Go to Zero's site, and click the FX and the "specs" tab. It shows with a single module it dials peak power back to 27hp, when you slam in a second module (which takes under 10 seconds to add/swap), you get the full 44hp.

The FX is so quick its crazy, I'm buying one, it makes my cheeks hurt from all the smiling I do when I ride it.

He also comments that modifications to the 2013 model's performance parameters are obviously limited to restrict any damage to the equipment.  However, apparently adjusting such things as regen percentage, is something that the owner would be able to do with a smart phone.

[protomech]

LFP works for Zero. He's in a good position to know a lot about Zero's motorcycles : )

I posted this on the Brammo Forum:

With a .. 180 lb rider (me), we have the following power/weight ratios:

2012 S ZF9 17.9 lbs/hp (geared for 88 mph top speed) .. ~10s 0-60
2013 FX ZF5.7 10.2 lbs/hp (geared for 85 mph top speed) .. ~5.5s 0-60
2013 S ZF8.5 9.8 lbs/hp (geared for 95 mph top speed) .. ~5.9s 0-60
2013 MX ZF5.7 8.2 lbs/hp (geared for 85 mph top speed.. yow!) .. ~4.4s 0-60

Estimated 0-60 times assuming motor has a similar torque curve to the 2012 motor. Probably a bad assumption - but there you go. I would be a little surprised if the FX pulled 4s 0-60 .. MX maybe. Still hugely faster than the 2012 bikes.

[Marshm]

That FX and MX are looking pretty nice.  How did someone determine full size tires?  18 in back and 21 in front now?  So someone could pull out half the battery and ride around an area with a lighter bike at 233 pounds, then pop in the other battery and ride a longer ride on a 275 pound bike?  So that is getting a lighter around the yard bike, and then a heavier bike for when you go some place to hit the trails.  I like that concept and maybe close enough to not have to adjust the suspension to compensate.  

A belt for offroad actually works though?  I have jammed up my chain in sand before, and it looks like a belt would be worse.  My chain got so tight the wheel would not roll when going down a steep hill.  I put water on it from a nearby pond, and that slowly put slack back in the chain as the sand rinsed out.  Never knew that could happen.  Maybe there are holes where the belt teeth engage to let sand out?   What about a small rock.  

I think they need to push forward with all the technology and improvements they can each year.  Never slow down on that.  You will have more customers as the bikes improve, giving you more sales and more money to help fund a department to fix the older model years.  Some new technology might be the better solution to an old problem. Perhaps not much more expensive to just install the new stuff instead of fix the old.  Supporting the old is still very important because these are the customers that supported the company.  Without these customers, the company might have gone nowhere.  

I am curious if KTM will be behind in technology by the time it comes to market in the USA.

[ColoPaul]

New lineup = 

For all you 2012 buyers; IF you had waited for the 2013's, what would you have got instead?

I'm guessing most of the SZF9 riders would go the SZF11.4

I would clearly have gone with the XU ZF 5.7   --  more like my 12SZF6 but better and cheaper.

[cirrus pete]

New lineup = 

For all you 2012 buyers; IF you had waited for the 2013's, what would you have got instead?

I'm guessing most of the SZF9 riders would go the SZF11.4

I would clearly have gone with the XU ZF 5.7   --  more like my 12SZF6 but better and cheaper.

Remember, they won't be available for another quarter (at least)...

[CliC]

The MX does appear to have chain drive. I think the primary purpose for the FX is urban assault, with a little trail riding. They might offer a chain kit like on the 2012 DS, though.

If I do decide to satisfy my nascent interest in dirt riding, I'm getting a MX. 54hp is up in 450 4-stroke territory. It'll be interesting when they start racing them.

One interesting thing I noted was the new sealed motors, unlike the open ones on the 2012s. I wonder if Zero foresees that open style being a problem long term.