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[ColoPaul]

On the road again....
So after riding my 630 pound K1200GT for a month, being on the Zero again was quite remarkable.  Some thoughts:

I don't like firing up the big ol' ICE bike to drive 6 miles round trip to the store.  It takes awhile to come up to operating temp.  Seems so wasteful.  The Zero I wouldn't think twice about firing it up just to ride around the parking lot.  On, Off, On again - no big deal.

Amazing 300 pounds versus 630 pounds.  It's a world of difference.  I really like the Zero's ride.  It's light, tight, very maneuverable.  And I think the brakes are very responsive (my opinion, I know).

Sure the Zero is 0-60 in 10s; my k1200 has 130 hp so of course it's way faster.   But surprisingly, I don't really feel like the Zero is a 'slug' -- it just feels "reasonable".

It's cool that the Zero is so quiet.  Previous owner of my k1200 put aftermarket pipes on.  Too loud.  (He saved the stock pipes, I'm going to put them back on this fall)

It's fantastic that the Zero is electric - the heat just pours off the K1200 - not much fun if it's hot out - especially for around-town riding.  And no gas stations!  And (knock wood) low low maintenance costs.

I'm very happy to have my Zero - thanks to all at Zero for making a go at creating a E-moto company - let's hope they succeed!

[Larry295]

Exactly my thoughts... Especially the not having to warm up the motor on super short trips. That's convenient.
Yes electrics definitely is great for around town.

[ZeroSinMA]

On the road again....
So after riding my 630 pound K1200GT for a month, being on the Zero again was quite remarkable.  Some thoughts:

I don't like firing up the big ol' ICE bike to drive 6 miles round trip to the store.  It takes awhile to come up to operating temp.  Seems so wasteful.  The Zero I wouldn't think twice about firing it up just to ride around the parking lot.  On, Off, On again - no big deal.

Amazing 300 pounds versus 630 pounds.  It's a world of difference.  I really like the Zero's ride.  It's light, tight, very maneuverable.  And I think the brakes are very responsive (my opinion, I know).

Sure the Zero is 0-60 in 10s; my k1200 has 130 hp so of course it's way faster.   But surprisingly, I don't really feel like the Zero is a 'slug' -- it just feels "reasonable".

It's cool that the Zero is so quiet.  Previous owner of my k1200 put aftermarket pipes on.  Too loud.  (He saved the stock pipes, I'm going to put them back on this fall)

It's fantastic that the Zero is electric - the heat just pours off the K1200 - not much fun if it's hot out - especially for around-town riding.  And no gas stations!  And (knock wood) low low maintenance costs.

I'm very happy to have my Zero - thanks to all at Zero for making a go at creating a E-moto company - let's hope they succeed!

Great feedback.

With respect to acceleration, all I need is to get out in front of traffic from a traffic light to keep it as far behind me as possible. I like the sight of a wad of cars quietly disappearing into the distance in my rear view mirror. You have to floor a standard passenger car to keep up with a Zero S in sport mode at full throttle off the line.

I didn't hear you say that you missed shifting when you switched back to the Zero  

[ColoPaul]

I didn't hear you say that you missed shifting when you switched back to the Zero  

LOL.  A little jab there at protomech? 

Seriously though, it's a good point.  Shifting on the K1200 is just one more thing I have to think about that can distract me from traffic, road hazards, etc.  I would say I prefer not having to shift.  It's safer.

[Electric Terry]

Agreed completely ColoPaul!  I ride my Zero so much more than I used to ride the gas bikes.  I have my previous daily rider just sitting, because I'd still rather ride the Zero that cuts off without warning, rather than ride the Ninja.  I think that says a lot.  And with the new controller upgrade Harlan at Hollywood electrics is working on, it should feel closer to you k1200 if you desire that.  Having more power on tap if it's ever needed to get out of a sticky situation can never hurt. 

So, not to confuse threads, but how many miles now since they fixed your glitch? 

[ZeroSinMA]

I didn't hear you say that you missed shifting when you switched back to the Zero  

LOL.  A little jab there at protomech? 

Seriously though, it's a good point.  Shifting on the K1200 is just one more thing I have to think about that can distract me from traffic, road hazards, etc.  I would say I prefer not having to shift.  It's safer.

Of course it's safer to not have to shift, but most ICE motorcyclists don't put safety first. They like to make noise.  To them revving the engine and shifting is part of the experience they own a bike for. In fact, to my friends, a motorcycle that doesn't make noise isn't really a motorcycle. If they didn't feel this way then more of them would buy quiet ICE bikes with automatic transmissions.

A truly noisy bike is a hazard for the rider. "Loud pipes save lives" is nonsense. With loud pipes all you can hear is yourself. You are counting 100% on visual sighting of hazards. On a Zero, consciously or not, you are picking up audio cues that help keep you safe.

Rider attitudes about noise and shifting will change over time as applications for electric bikes grow. Noise and shifting are part of a mystique and that takes time to dissipate.



 

[ColoPaul]

So, not to confuse threads, but how many miles now since they fixed your glitch?  

About 70.  25 of those were at 60+ mph.   Leaving on a business trip, won't be able to do much more until the weekend.

Funny, since they did all the work on my ZF6; my 'gas gauge' is now clearly showing 50% more miles per bar.  It's almost as if when they installed the new BMS they forget to tell it was on a ZF6 and it thinks it's a ZF9.   Another call to the dealer...  

[dkw12002]

No need to warm up the Zero along with the light weight, stealthiness, and low cost of usage, and uniqueness, are the main 5 reasons I chose to take it over another bike. For shopping I have a Vespa with built-in storage. I take it to lunch too cause I can put a refill of my soda inside a cup holder under the seat. It's a good longer-distance ride too.  But for excitement, and the thrill of riding, I take my Triumph Street Triple r.  Let's just say it keeps you out in front of ALL traffic. No doubt in my mind the Zero is a safer bike than the Triumph because who would  have a light-weight bike with over 100 hp if you don't intend to use it? 

[protomech]

I hopped back and forth between the Zero and my GS500 (~410 lbs, ~40 hp) for a little while.

GS500 has a more aggressive riding position (Zero is very upright). Bars are much more angled. Controls are heavier, have IMO a nicer feel to them.

In actual riding, the GS500 is faster if I am in the right gear (ie revving the snot out of it), but if I am toodling along in 4-5k rpm there is a non-trivial delay to get in the correct gear and get moving. Throttle response is non-linear, especially when cold. The GS rides much more heavily, I can feel the weight anytime I take corners on the bike.

[ColoPaul]

Funny, since they did all the work on my ZF6; my 'gas gauge' is now clearly showing 50% more miles per bar.  It's almost as if when they installed the new BMS they forget to tell it was on a ZF6 and it thinks it's a ZF9.   Another call to the dealer...  

Okay, I rode 45 miles, mixed highway and back roads.  On the old BMS this would leave me with 0 or 1 bar.  On the new BMS I have 4 bars left!  The kill-o-watt told me it took 5.3 kWh to recharge.
5.3 * 90% eff = 4.77 kWh.   4.77 out of 5.3 (zf6 nominal) * 11 bars = 1 bar left.   This seems to match the old BMS.
4.77 out of 7.9 (zf9 nominal) * 11 bars = 4 bars left.  This is what the new BMS is telling me.
Am I missing something with these equations?

The service manager at the dealer seems to think my zf9-zf6 configuration mixup theory is 'impossible'.

Should I attempt to run it down to 0 bars?   Could I damage something?

[protomech]

The BMS will disable the battery pack when it reaches a lower cutoff voltage. This LCV is above the battery's "do not discharge to here" voltage.

So it should be safe, other than you might be walking.

5.3 kWh used to recharge with 4 bars left does sound suspicious.

[Keith_Greensboro_NC]

The BMS will disable the battery pack when it reaches a lower cutoff voltage. This LCV is above the battery's "do not discharge to here" voltage.

So it should be safe, other than you might be walking.

5.3 kWh used to recharge with 4 bars left does sound suspicious.

That sounds like my ZF9: 4 bars, 5.91 KWH to recharge.

[Harlan]

Funny, since they did all the work on my ZF6; my 'gas gauge' is now clearly showing 50% more miles per bar.  It's almost as if when they installed the new BMS they forget to tell it was on a ZF6 and it thinks it's a ZF9.   Another call to the dealer...  

Okay, I rode 45 miles, mixed highway and back roads.  On the old BMS this would leave me with 0 or 1 bar.  On the new BMS I have 4 bars left!  The kill-o-watt told me it took 5.3 kWh to recharge.
5.3 * 90% eff = 4.77 kWh.   4.77 out of 5.3 (zf6 nominal) * 11 bars = 1 bar left.   This seems to match the old BMS.
4.77 out of 7.9 (zf9 nominal) * 11 bars = 4 bars left.  This is what the new BMS is telling me.
Am I missing something with these equations?

The service manager at the dealer seems to think my zf9-zf6 configuration mixup theory is 'impossible'.

Should I attempt to run it down to 0 bars?   Could I damage something?

Definitely not impossible.  If they swapped your BMS with one intended for a ZF9 pack, they may need to manually set it for a ZF6.