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[protomech]

OK, all I have is a ZF6.
But I took the challenge and went 67.1 miles on a charge.  (the last bar disappeared at 62.3)
(7.9/5.3)*67.1 = 100
Does that count?

Sure! It's actually 67.1 * 1.5 = 100.7, for whatever that's worth : )

ZF6 has a big advantage, it weighs 44 lbs less.. I wish I weighed 44 lbs less.

And protomech, like rotoiti I'm curious what device you're using to measure partial bars and battery pack % #'s.

The BMS board has an onboard serial port. More details soon. I estimate partial bars by watching when they disappear - for example, if the 7th bar disappears (leaving 4 remaining) at 57.3 miles and I go an extra 3.8 miles at a pace I know uses about 8 miles per bar, I call that 61.1 miles and 7.5 bars. I'd like to replace those mental gymnastics soon..

[protomech]

Rode the Zero to visit mom over the weekend.

Two primary ways to get there:
1. 120 miles of interstate + some off-interstate city roads, ~2 hours
2. 83 miles of state highways, 45-65 mph, ~1.5 hours

I took option 3:
3. , ~40% of which is 50-65 mph highways rest is backroads 30-40 mph

I have done the first stage of this route several times, ridden halfway, and turned back around .. making sure the bike was doing okay. As near as I could tell from google maps, I should be able to just barely make it by going the backroad route and riding under the speed limit where safe to do so. Erring on the side of caution, I also called ahead to a couple of restaurants near the midpoint and found one where I would be able to charge. (they were all very nice, but the first two I called said they didn't think they had external outlets)

Stopped to refuel part way at a restaurant. I think I may have popped a breaker; only gained maybe a bar in 1.5 hours (typically gain 1.5 bars/hour). A little worried about range.

The leg from the restaurant on turned out to be really easy, the backroad route was 30-35 mph and very pretty. Rolled into mom's place with 0 bars remaining and about 3-4 miles into the reserve (reserve is about 20 miles @ 20 mph, 10 miles @ 40 mph).

Returning home the next day was much easier. Stopped to charge for an hour (same restaurant), gained 1.6 bars (12 miles recharged per hour), arrived at home with 1.8 bars remaining. Net elevation gain was near zero, though there is a 700 foot gain in ~1 mile that I go up on the way out and descent on the way back.


So. Huntsville to Trussville? Totally possible. Practical? Well..

What would make it easier:
* aero improvements for the Zero.
* more battery capacity.
* faster charging. If I could find two separate circuits an hour stop would get me enough charge to ride at a significantly faster pace.

What would make it harder (or completely unfeasible):
* cycle-based range degradation (since already pushing it close) .. I have approximately 45 full cycles on the batteries now.
* colder temperatures that sap range (even 60F might be enough of a range drop to rule it out).
* strong headwinds.
* heavier traffic forcing a higher speed for safety.

Would I do it again on the Zero? Probably not, or at least not until I can work on the aerodynamics. This trip is right on the very edge of the Zero's capabilities, and I'm not really comfortable pushing both the speed deltas between myself and traffic and the range margin. I think I could improve the route a little, and perhaps ride a bit more efficiently. Still.. it's nice to know it's possible. Now I just need to make it easy


Oh.. and on topic.

On the return trip I traveled 88.9 miles with 10.9 total bars used, leaving me with 1.7 bars remaining after a 1.6 bar charge. Counting the 1.5 bar hidden reserve, that gives me 88.9 * 12.5 / 10.9 = 101.9 miles in a single charge. If you count the charge as part of "one trip", then total distance at that pace is 88.9 * (12.5 + 1.6) / 10.9 = 115 miles.

[Larry295]

But you guys are missing the point in my opinion.

Electric bikes are not designed for long range touring. They just aren't! No yet at least...
Don't buy a Zero to try and do a cross country trip!! So being disappointed when the bike doesn't reach the 100miles mark is missing the point.
Zero designed a bike to allow you to commute to work or run errands around town. And for that, the bike delivers.

Those who needs to have a bike delivering more than 100miles range day in and day out shouldn't buy electric.

[CliC]

But you guys are missing the point in my opinion.

Electric bikes are not designed for long range touring. They just aren't! No yet at least...

Perhaps. Riding lawn mowers weren't designed for racing, but...

Those who needs to have a bike delivering more than 100miles range day in and day out shouldn't buy electric.

Day in and day out, yes. But who are we humans if not envelope-pushers?

[Larry295]

Pushing the envelope yes, but this talk about range is what most people always think about when talking about electric.
If they stopped for a second, they'd realized it's just a non issue for this type of vehicle.
And this thread reinforces this, which will probably make people give up on electric, when we actually need more people buying, the technology being more widely spread, so that prices come down and range increases due to more money for research...

[protomech]

Range is a non-issue in my daily commuting usage, because it's very predictable and well beneath the capabilities of the bike. On my longest regular day (leave at 5:30 am, return at 11 pm) I'll do 70 miles - and I have a couple of opportunities to charge mid-day. (I go to a friend's house in the evening for movies, I can charge there if I need to .. but haven't had to thus far)

Range is a big issue for shorter single-day trips like this last one. The Zero completed the trip successfully, but it required a set of compromises that make it a secondary choice at best.

Recharge speed is a bigger issue for touring, as offthegrid has done .. range just allows you to go further distances between charging points.

People ask me three things about the bike: range, speed, recharge time. I tell them 60-80+ miles in my usage (but YMWV), 85+ mph (see YMWV), and either 5 seconds or overnight.. depending on how you look at it.

[Larry295]

Exactly. For day trips, this bike is a second choice. It just cannot be used like a regular bike would.
You have to use it for what it excels at: commuting with time to recharge in between trips

[rotoiti]

I'd love to see 4x charger built-in on board, connected to J1772 socket. This setup is well within the bike's envelope.

I wonder if the limitation is the heat that needs to be dispersed while charging. Both the onboard charger and my quick charger get quite hot while charging.

Anyway, sure, the bike is an excellent commuter [and I (ab)use it as such] but I wish I could go farther. For me, the limitation is the charging speed; there are plenty of charging stations around Bay Area, even more in CA. It should be entirely possible to go from SF to LA on a Zero, if it wasn't for charging speed limitation. If I could stop at a restaurant and charge at 4x the speed of the onboard charger I would definitely attempt such a trip. But I am not converting my Zero to a Christmas tree of quick chargers

[Lipo423]

Yes Rotoiti, heat is the main problem + proper IP enclosure + Network...a 4KW charger is like a heater  and it would be challenging to find (today)where to plug-it in as current demand would be pretty high.
Hopefully they will find a solution for installing at least a 2Kw one in the 2013 models (this should not be a problem as there is plenty of space), and 8-9A (in Europe at 220V), is not a big deal

[rotoiti]

it would be challenging to find (today)where to plug-it in as current demand would be pretty high.

That is what I was hinting at: there are plenty of Chargepoint/Blink EV charging stations around here but our Zeros are unable to make full use of those. Even with the J1772 connector, you're still limited to what the onboard charger can provide, even though most electric car charging stations can supply 32A at 240V (over 7 kW) and some are upgraded to 80A at 240V (19 kW).

SAE 1772

[Lipo423]

Yep, I cannot agree more with you...we have to be patience as EV vehicles -and anything behind them- are still in their infancy...

[ColoPaul]

People ask me three things about the bike: range, speed, recharge time. I tell them 60-80+ miles in my usage (but YMWV), 85+ mph (see YMWV), and either 5 seconds or overnight.. depending on how you look at it.

They always ask me how much does one cost, too.   I love that answer about recharge time!!    I'll use that from now on....

[Electric Terry]

I saw the past few posts on this page and just felt the need to comment.   I have had my 2012 Zero S for a little over 2 months now.  Just crossed the 5000 mile mark a few days ago.  I have not had to ride my other motorcycles (nor have I wanted to) or even driven one of my cars since I got it.  As soon as I got it, I realized I didn't need more batteries.  What I needed was the ability to charge faster.  in fact if I had a limited budget and could either get a ZF9 with one charger or a ZF6 with 4 chargers, the choice would easily be the latter.   At the Nissan dealerships, Blink, Aerovironment, or Chargepoint stations I usually charge at close to 4.2 kw when the battteries are near full.  the chargers run so much cooler also versus charging at 120 volts.  Not to mention 90% of every charge station I've been to is free!  My total electricity cost for 5000 miles of riding is just over $5.00 total including at my house.  Although because of load balancing my deep cycle batteries at my house, i rarely charge there.  At night I'd drain my batteries too low, but if I'm home during the day I'll gladly fill my bike up with free sunshine!  For those who don't know, i have been off the grid now for almost a year with no power bill.  You can learn more here: www.facebook.com/lifeoffthegrid  So that $5 is almost completely from my charge point account.

To me the 2012 S is the perfect go anywhere whenever sport touring bike.  Also the first bike i have had that carries 2 passengers easily (yes you read that right, 2 passengers. 3 total people. More pictures of that and of the charger mounting at the link above to the Off The Grid page.  I have also noticed that I'm going further than I used to.  So perhaps my driving is getting better (not really I tend to drive really aggressive and actually ground so much of the kickstand turning left that i had a small failure and had to tape it up so the bike would run until I fixed it. recommendation is higher mounting on future models and to make the ring the bolt goes through out of much thicker aluminum or out of steel) or the batteries are getting stronger as i pass 5000 miles.  Not sure.  I'd love to download the data from my bike and analyze it.  Wish there was a Zero dealer closer to me in Florida with a diagnostic computer.  Oh well, perhaps another reason for a nice long afternoon roadtrip.

[Richard230]

Well, I am impressed!   

[ed5000]

I always thought if I had a ZF9 bike and i needed to take long trips that I would get an electric car charger like the Manzanito Micro PFC-20.  This charger is fully adjustable up to 4.3Kw output all in a package about the size of a shoebox.  That would eliminate the  Christmas tree effect of multiple chargers with a more efficient charger for about the same price ($500 per Kw?) and you can dial down the charge rate for smaller circuits, other loads sharing the same circuit, etc. (works on 120 or 220 VAC.).  J1772 "nozzles" are be available to go with it in the $200-300 range through other vendors.  Of course, a little wiring know how would be required but it shouldn't be too difficult.