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[zap mc]

Zero have started their consumer mailout today and lead with the mileage capacity and quoted the 100 mile + claim and I am interested to know if anyone has actually done it out here in the real world as we all appreciate that the average speed at which you need to obtain this mileage is 19.1 mph and on a ZF9 naturally.

[protomech]

In fairness, the average speed includes the warm stop periods in the UDDS test. The actual speed while traveling is closer to 25-30 mph.

The best I have seen is an estimated 73 miles total range from a 39 mile trip (~5.5 bars, 4.4 kWh to charge). Probably 70% 40-45 mph travel (some stop & go), 20% 30-40 mph, and 10% 20-30 mph.

[Richard230]

As I mentioned earlier, last week I traveled 50 miles on 4.85 kWh, measured at the wall outlet. I still had 5 bars left on the "fuel" gauge. I rode 5 miles at an average of 70 mph and the rest of my trip consisted of stoplight-to-stoplight travel at a top speed between lights of 45 mph. My trip also consisted of traveling up and down a series of hills consisting of 2 three hundred high hills and one 700 foot high hill.  So I figure I could have easily ridden over 100 miles on a full pack if traveling on level ground at an average speed of 40 mph.  I think Zero's mileage claims are valid for their ZF9 model.

However, I will agree that the government needs a more valid mileage testing method. I think the EV technology is surpassing their test method and it is time that they kept up with how EV owners are actually using their vehicles so that new owners don't get disillusioned when they try to get the claimed mileage while driving 75 on the freeway.

[zap mc]

However, I will agree that the government needs a more valid mileage testing method. I think the EV technology is surpassing their test method and it is time that they kept up with how EV owners are actually using their vehicles so that new owners don't get disillusioned when they try to get the claimed mileage while driving 75 on the freeway.

you encapsulated the sentiment exactly, the customer new to the electric motorcycle world will expect it to actually do 100 miles in the real world and when it doesnt it just leads to disappointment and disillusionment from the start, i dont know why the industry is waiting for different governments to set the standards when they should take the lead themselves or else the spin doctors just go into overdrive. Maybe Zero are just trying to pre empt the Brammo initiative?

[CliC]

I also agree there needs to be a revised testing model. The number of potential customers asking about "real-world" range attests to that, if nothing else.

As for going 100+ miles, I'm too afraid of getting stranded to try it Maybe one day if I'm really close to home.

[Lipo423]

I agree with all the statements, although I have to recognize that "what we want" in terms of range -without intermediate charging- it will probably not come before 7-10 years, if we are lucky...each manufacturer -including Zero- is trying to get the consumer head into electric bikes while they need to keep them affordable -which is quite impossible-
When you look at the marketplace today, and check the various specs, the ZF9 is probably the best bet in performance/range/price? Mostly of what is out there has been designed for short trips, or city use as every Kw of battery power still cost a lot of money.

The other aspect besides battery capacity is charging, we need fast charging stations...Zero's dealer in Spain is working with the local goverment to get "Zero" fast charging stations in Barcelona (20-30 min, full charge)...we'll see if if happens.

I rode the ZF9 yesterday -mostly freeway + ECO mode- 70 miles (2+1 bars left), 6Kw power comsumption measured on my power meter (mostly of the time at 50-55 mph, with 3-4 shorts overtakings at 65-70 mph).

It's all about tucking...the wind makes our fun shorter 

[ZeroSinMA]

It's all about tucking...the wind makes our fun shorter 

This is in my opinion why real world range is consistently lower than the gov't dynamo simulated riding: fails to account for wind resistance. I bet wind resistance knocks 10% to 20% off the simulated ride range.

Put a windshield on my 2011 S and added 10% to my range. Zero ought to ship all their street bikes with windshields.

[protomech]

The EPA dyno schedules specify a speed-dependent resistance load for the dyno. I don't know how well the road load matches actual conditions.

[protomech]

65 miles on the bike tonight, had 3 bars of charge remaining. Third bar no doubt very close to disappearing. Total range projection was a bit over 80 miles.

About 6-7 miles of that was 65 mph controlled access highway, some 50 mph riding, mostly 40-45 mph. Pulled the saddlebags off this morning (suspect I did not fit them correctly and they might have been rubbing on the tire), went with a backpack instead. Seems to have helped.

I really need a Cycle Analyst, I think. Lipo423, do you have one?

[Lipo423]

Unfortrunately not Protomech 
I need to get one...the way I measure total power consumption is with a kind of European "Kill A Watt meter" like the one Richard has, but works at 220V...not exactly the most accurate way, but it is fine...

[zap mc]

This is in my opinion why real world range is consistently lower than the gov't dynamo simulated riding: fails to account for wind resistance. I bet wind resistance knocks 10% to 20% off the simulated ride range.
Put a windshield on my 2011 S and added 10% to my range. Zero ought to ship all their street bikes with windshields.

a really interesting point yes , my idea for a more meaningful range test would be just to see how long it went at differing mph intervals of 10mph on a real road with a real rider of 200 lbs.
i.e. 20mph = 100 miles
     30mph = 90 miles
     40mph = 70 miles etc
and in that way any customer could compare the relative mileage of any bike and make a mental adjustment for hills and stop start...

[manlytom]

Hi

even a challenge to get 100m out of my Harley with Peanut tank... so not only electric bikes have that challenge. Over here I have to know where I can fill up or I am stranded.

Tom
http://www.facebook.com/ZeroElectricMoto

[ZeroSinMA]

The EPA dyno schedules specify a speed-dependent resistance load for the dyno. I don't know how well the road load matches actual conditions.

That's good to know. Thanks.

[trikester]

I now have 17" (modified rear from 16" rim to 17") highway legal knobbys on my 2012 DS ZF6 because I ride desert sandy trails a lot. However, I have discovered that the knobby tread has greatly reduced my highway mileage.  I can probably improve it some by airing up the tires more when I'm going to do an all pavement ride. The test ride was: strong cross wind, desert somewhat level highway, and speed mostly 50 - 55 mph. The 30 mile round trip had me at two bars and flashing. I don't know how much distance I had left at that point.

[zap mc]

saw this article on torquenews.com and it seems that the manufacturers are now massaging the figures themselves to try and give a lead over the competition on paper...

". In this case we learn that the test procedure Zero used to determine the 66 mile range on the Zero S ZF9 is identical to the test procedure Brammo used to determine the combined range of 77 miles. That is, Brammo's test procedure for the highway spec is the "Constant Speed Riding Range Test Procedure for Electric Motorcycles" which uses a constant 70 miles/hr speed. Zero's test procedure for the highway spec is the constant 70 miles/hr speed, averaged with the results of the city speed. Zero's highway test procedure is the same test procedure Brammo uses for the combined range"

It makes more of a case for an agreed standard i think