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[protomech]

Got a call from a Zero rep contacting owners for feedback, went to voicemail. Haven't called back yet.

Some things I'd like to see, either available for the 2012 bikes or updates to the 2013 models:

1. Faster charger. The Zero has a 1 kW charger now, and it's seems to be very efficient - I have some fuzzy math showing charging efficiency around 93-95%. With that said, typical draw from the wall is 850-900W - well shy of the 1.1+ kW it should be pulling for a 1 kW battery charge. A 1.5 kW charger could charge up to twice the speed from the same 110v outlet, and I bet if it was as efficient as the Delta-Q seems to be then it probably would have no thermal problems doing so.

In practice, I'm not sure how useful this would be for me - the bike has enough range that my riding has yet to really benefit from a short non-overnight charge, and the expensive quick charge option is there at least.

2. User-tunable power maps and regen braking. I like the eco setting, I do most of my commuting in that mode for presumed economy purposes and for the stronger regen braking .. which actually makes commute riding easier. I presume the motor is somewhat neutered below 10 mph, even in sport mode; I'd love a bit more early acceleration and carry the regen braking over from eco mode.

3. Aero fairing. A bit less energy consumption at 55 mph would allow me to take the bike to mom's house 80 miles away. I knew it would not be able to make it there when I bought it -- but it's actually pretty close without the fairing. Combine the aero fairing with a faster charger, and it'd boost recharging for typical 55 mph speeds from 6 miles charged per hour (essentially overnight only if mostly discharged) to 15-18 miles charged per hour.

If you can make use of opportunity charging while out and about, this would have a huge impact on your range - imagine a start and a set of 3 stops, 30 minutes at each location, 10 miles between the start and between each starting point (so 3 short rides and 3 opportunity charges).
* As-is, you discharge ~1.3 kWh each trip and charge 0.4 kWh each stop. Total 2.7 kWh depleted when you leave the final stop. Pack is at 66%.
* With a fairing and a faster charger, you might discharge ~1.0 kWh each trip and charge 0.7 kWh each stop. Total 0.9 kWh depleted when you leave the final stop. Pack is at 89%.

4. I'd love a power discharge/recharge meter and an energy consumed meter.

[manlytom]

support all the above and in fact filled out a survey on that matter some weeks ago.

Would add though that with a platform like a Zero electric bike we might be able to customise more in future. I.e. not have just a Motard or dirt bike. If it can transform, or can be either more a street bike that has better aero dynamics etc.
Allow creation of various designs as we have no exhaust or much heat in the way. For example be able to go retro racer, single seat and so on. a bit like Lego flexibility or for that fact Harley concept that you can change a lot. Make the base bike cheaper and offer  modification options.

T

[Richard230]

I second your comments, Protomech.  And I would add a request that Zero provide a useable luggage rack behind the seat. I would also like to see the charge and inspection ports sealed with a removable clear cover to keep the charger area cleaner and debris-free.

Say, isn't it about time that Zero published their accessory catalog for the 2012 models?

[Lipo423]

If there is a good person to represent us on the technical side that person is you Protomech 

On the charger side I would like to go further (I told to a friend once than when dreaming you should not be cheap!!), I know it is technically difficult, but I would go for a 2Kw one if possible (yes, we would shorten the battery life, but who the hell is going to ride the bike 490.000 Km...)
Other than that I'm ok with the rest of the other members comments.

Good luck!

[Richard230]

After riding around today, I figure that I don't need two speedometers and that extra analog speedometer on my bike would make a really neat kW meter.   

[protomech]

A 2 or 3 kW charger would be fantastic. I'd love to see something like the 3 kW charger Brammo will use in the Empulse .. or Mission Motors' 4.5 kW charger, which is super-sexy. Also likely super-expensive.

I can't imagine a 2 kW charger at 0.25C would seriously shorten the battery life. At least in the US a 2 kW charger is more than a conventional 110v/15a socket can support - if Zero builds a charger intended for use on 220v I'd like to see at least a 3 kW charger.

Jensen Beeler at Asphalt & Rubber mentions (without citing a source) that the 2013 Zeros will be a fresh start design. The 2012 bikes are a clear evolution going all the way back to the 2008 X -- or even to the 2006 Drift motorcross bike. I'm not convinced that the 2013 bikes won't be another small evolution of the 2012 bikes - somewhat cheaper, faster charger perhaps. I would be very interested in seeing what Zero could do with a fresh slate.

From an industrial design point-of-view, all of the negatives about the 2012 Zero S can easily be addressed in the 2013 model, which is expected to start with a much cleaner slate (not to mention more lead-time in its development) — this doesn’t help the 2012 product much though.

[Doctorbass]

Usually cells that have good high C rate on discharge tend to accept great C rate on charging too.

Teh new EIG can be charged at 1C no prob!.. as well as for the emoli of the last gen battery like my zero DS 2011.

I would not bother if charging at 1.5C or 2C if the battery is nin a well ventilated area.

Luke confirmed that to me.. but as well a 70Ah battery chrged at 140A require a bigger connector... and charger...!

the ZF9 would require 18kW charger..

so i guess that the level 2 charging from the J1772 could charge it at 1C no prob.

Doc

[Lipo423]

I still have some concerns about the battery life at a high current charge...by default temperature in the cell will raise when charging at higher currents and we come to a place we do not want to be...hot charging cells...
Maybe the Brammo water cooling will potentially solve this (in the Tesla it works that way), but not sure if there will be some challenges with the Zero battery long cycling life/km commitment.

Personally, I would not mind in sacrificing charging cycles in order to get faster charging.

[protomech]

3000 cycles to 80% is a loong time.

I have 600 miles and about 8.6 cycles on the battery at this time. That gives me about 210k miles to 3000 cycles - which is probably 21 years of regular riding.

My hope is for 8-10 years of useful life out of the battery. It's overkill for my current needs now (work commute uses about a third of the pack, longest regular route uses 2/3 of the pack), though aging and cycles and temperature will take their toll.

If higher charge C rates reduce the cycles to 80% down to 1500, that's no big deal to me. Given the option between (for example) a 2C charge with 10% accelerated pack degradation and a 0.1C charge as current, I'd probably still use the 0.1C charge 90% of the time. The 2C charge would be useful for longer trips - I'm about to leave on a ~200 mile ~55 mph trip on my GS500, I figure that's about 3.5 packs for the ZF9. Probably would have to stop 3 times for a 30 minute 80% charge (every 45-50 minutes), supposing adequate infrastructure existed (16 kW charge).

I don't know if Brammo is liquid-cooling the batteries. I thought they were just cooling the controller and motor. Certainly the Enertia+ does not liquid-cool the batteries, though its power draw will be significantly lower.

[Lipo423]

I agree, do not mind in sacrificing cycles if I could get faster charging, and eventually travel with the bike as you are planning to do with your IC bike...as I said in a different post I see very few people keeping these bikes for such a long time...and the batteries will not last that long...

[Richard230]

I agree, do not mind in sacrificing cycles if I could get faster charging, and eventually travel with the bike as you are planning to do with your IC bike...as I said in a different post I see very few people keeping these bikes for such a long time...and the batteries will not last that long...

And the other issue is that the technology is so rapidly advancing that who will want to keep their electric motorcycle 10 years? Or maybe even 5 years? I figure that if you can afford the latest EV now, you will want to buy the next generation when they double the current performance. Maybe by then there will be a used-EV market.  Those oil prices will keep on climbing and more and more people will be considering an EV for commuting to work. All they are looking for is the lower prices that a "pre-owned and nicely broken-in" electric vehicle market will provide.   

[dkw12002]

Better acceleration and less weight.

[Lipo423]

Nortwestern University -just to name one- has developed a technology for Lithium batteries where they will get 10 times more capacity and you will be able to charge them 10 times faster -no kidding- This is going to be 3rd gen. batteries, and the 2nd one is forecasted to be available for us in 2015, it will probably take 5 more years.

Here is my challenge to all of you. I bet you one meal (in Barcelona -SPAIN-), that none of the ones following these discussions on regular bases will keep their bikes for more than 2-3 years without getting a new upgraded model.

Do you accept? 

[manlytom]

hi Lipo

 I am on my 2 years by now. Just that my 2010 S had serious teething issues that we swapped it. I see me riding the 2011 S for some time to come. Bike is fun, just right for all of my usual rides ...
Obviously always keen on latest tech ... want to see the models develop and upgrade mid term only.

I was once in Barcelona, nice city ! Went to a very nice restaurant. Will need to digg thename out..

T

[Richard230]

My daughter spent a month in Barcelona one summer in between semesters at UCSD. She loved the city, but was surprised that there were not as many motorcycles in town as she had expected. I hear it is a beautiful city, but last night the TV news reported that the political climate is a little unsettled at the moment due to Spain's poor economy.

As far as how long I will keep my Zero, that depends upon what improvements are made in the future. I don't need a higher top speed, but if range is doubled, I would probably give my current bike to my "green" daughter and buy a new one. I figure that might be in about 3 or 4 years.