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[gadget123]

i like it so far. i haven't used it on the dirt yet. i haven't ridden a bike in over 20 years so i am just riding it around my neighborhood in san diego.

i picked it up saturday, feb 18th from the dealer. total price including tax was $12,817. i don't think i get a rebate but i am trying to find out now. if anyone knows if the x qualifies for any rebate please let me know.

the dealer told me the bike was charged up for the ride home. home was 45 miles away so we (a friend followed in a car...just in case) planned to stop about 22 miles away at his house for a recharge. we made it about 14 miles and the bike was at 2 bars. it turns out that the dealer didn't charge it up. it registered 8 bars when we left the dealer so...obviously he didn't really charge it. i guess it's my fault for not really thinking about that before leaving. anyhow, after a quick charge at a restaurant we literally just made it to his driveway before the entire thing shut down.

a full charge overnight and it made it 23 miles on streets where the maximum we drove was 55 (for about 7 miles). the bike was basically empty when we arrived. one bar by the time we were a couple blocks away.

i haven't gone further than 3 miles without a charge since taking it home from the dealer.

it has plenty of power. it looks so-so. i am going to paint some of the plastic parts. i'll post them here if anyone really cares. it is louder than i thought it would be. not as loud as a combustion, obviously, but still kinda loud...maybe half as loud as a combustion when you're going over 10 mph. and it is very easy to ride..at least for me. i am 6' 1" and 190.

i am really impressed with the power. the tires are not "full size" but for me that's ok. i am not a pro. i will head out to a trail next weekend so i might post my thoughts after that. but i bought this thing to commute on as well. my full day of driving is about 25 miles of low-speed roads. i live and work in la jolla (if anyone knows how slow the beach areas are). i fully expect this bike to make it the 25 miles no problem, but i haven't tested it yet. the bike made it 22-23 miles on a full charge with 7 miles at full speed. i would assume i can go 25 at an average speed of 30-35.

i was really questioning whether or not to get this bike. i really like the look and idea of the brd redshift. but i didn't want to wait til next year and i didn't want to pay $15k (however, if they qualify for a tax rebate and the zero x doesn't then the prices would be pretty similar). i was considering waiting for brammo's dirtbike but i don't want to risk a new transmission. i wanted an electric bike for the lack of maintenance. and the brd bike has a liquid cooling system. same thing there. at least zero has several years of models. i just hope that this bike really is easy to maintain.

2 things that i wish zero had included on the x:

1) brushless motor
2) built-in charger...i know it would add weight to a mx bike but i still wish it were included. it's a pain to drag the charger everywhere

i think i'll get another battery so i can have a few hours of trail riding without having to worry about finding and waiting for a charge (at least 2 hours). that will make this bike so expensive though...at least $15k after tax.

anyhow, just posting my thoughts on this bike so far.

[skadamo]

Thanks a lot for the report!! Congrats on the new bike.

It would be nice if you could get the rebates for the X. BRD said they want to make their MX street legal so buyers can get the incentive. After that they can take off the road legal parts for track riding.

[Richard230]

Unfortunately, my understanding (from going through the California rebate process) is that the Zero X does not qualify for the $900 rebate. Only the S and DS qualify, as they are street legal and that is all the California Center for Sustainable Energy (the Rebaters) care about.  (P.S. their office is located at 8690 Balboa Avenue, Suite 100, San Diego, if you want to go hassle them   )

And of course the Federal EV Purchase Tax Credit has expired for this year.   

[protomech]

The 2012 X should be street legal. (2011 X was available in off-road only or street legal form). The 2012 MX is the off-road only bike.

Here's what the CVRP Applicant Requirements (PDF) document says:

To qualify for a rebate, vehicles must meet the following requirements:
1. The vehicle must be new as defined in the California Vehicle Code (CVC) section 430 and must be
manufactured by the Original Equipment Manufacturer (OEM) or its authorized licensee. Vehicles
considered new vehicles solely for determination of compliance with state emissions standards are not
eligible.
2. The vehicle must be on the List of Eligible Vehicles (available at www.cvrp.energycenter.org) on the date
of purchase or lease.
3. Zero-Emission Motorcycles (ZEMs) and Neighborhood Electric Vehicles (NEVs) must be equipped with
sealed, maintenance-free batteries and meet the warranty requirements as described in Sections 2.3.3 and
2.3.4 of the CVRP Implementation Manual.

The list of eligible vehicles currently includes the 2012 S, DS and XU, but oddly not the X.

Looking at the CVRP Implementation Manual (pdf), the actual requirements for a zero emissions motorcycle are a 2 year warranty (last year can be optional extension), sealed maintenance-free battery, able to accelerate from 0-50 mph in < 10s, must be "freeway capable", able to complete a 38.6 mile road course at at least 35 mph average (not clear whether completion is a hard requirement). The review board gives the final thumbs up or thumbs down on whether a vehicle is certified and eligible for the rebate.

The X is very close to the XU, just as the DS is very close to the S. Looking at the implementation manual, there's no obvious reason the XU should be certified and the X should not. I suspect Zero just hasn't submitted the X for certification.

In any case, the applicant (that's you) requirements state the vehicle must be approved on the date of purchase, and it appears the X is not. It's possible they may make an exemption and the X is being tested (or is otherwise not listed due to oversight) -- it's worth a call to see what's going on. But don't expect to get the rebate.

[Harlan]

I believe the Zero X was submitted but I'm guessing the 38.6 mile course is a stretch on that bike and in the end it did not qualify.

The XU is probably able to finish it because it has a more efficient drivetrain: brushless motor, stiffer suspension, road tires.

[gadget123]

the dealer told me the x qualified for about $2500 in rebates. he said he even confirmed it with zero. but, i sort of doubt that he did any of that.

Harlan -- i'm pretty sure that you're right. the xu is using the same battery as the x (at least that's what it looks like) but the motor is different. i really doubt that the x could make it 38.6 miles at an average speed of 35...in fact i am 100% certain this is impossible after riding it on a full charge and only getting about 23-25 miles (given 6 or 7 of those miles were at 50-55).

i wish they could have packed a little more into that battery. but mostly i wish the dealer had not misinformed me. he was so insistent that i would get those rebates...which is basically what pushed me into buying it. does anyone know if the bike would qualify if i bought an extra battery? i would ask my dealer but i am sure he would say yes and tell me to come in with a check, without even asking.

one other thing: some people seemed to complain about mirror placements on older bikes. i don't have any problem with them. they work fine for me.

[Harlan]

Gadget123, there aren't $2500 in rebates to collect on any motorcycle in the state of California.  Most dealers out there are poorly educated on electric motorcycles since they're used to dealing only gas bikes.  A second battery will not qualify any bike that is not already on the CARB rebate list.

[gadget123]

Harlan -- thanks..that's pretty much what i thought. zero should have gotten this dealer more jazzed up about their line. it is definitely an afterthought at my dealer.

i'm still gonna get the extra battery though, i think.

[Zero Hero]

gadget 123. Is your X street legal? I live in Oceanside and have a street legal X. I also have a friend with a street legal X and we occasionally ride mountain bike trails in north county. Which dealer did you buy the bike from?

[j_humph]

Gadget123,

Congrats on your new bike. 

I am really interested in getting one myself, but now I am second guessing it, since your description of the amount of battery life really does not seem that good at all.

You said you only made it 23 miles on a full charge, mostly just riding around on city streets. What do you think your total ride time was? Do you think you got a defective battery?  Zero's web site spec page claims 38 miles city, or 60-120minutes ride time. Do you think you are getting anywhere near that? 

Also, Zero's web page claims 75% more battery life for the 2012 version over the 2011. Do you think they gave you an old battery? By the way you described the dealer you bought the bike from, they sound like a bunch of unscrupulous a-holes.

I'm really curious to hear what your impressions are of the bike after you take it on the trail. That is the main reason I want this bike, but I want this one over the MX because I want to be able to ride it from my house to the nearby trails, which are about 7 miles away.


Thanks,
-Jay

[protomech]

7 miles at 55 mph can use as much charge as 14 miles (or more) of city riding. The UDDS test is mostly low speed city operation (< 20 mph average) - if the remainder of the trip was 35-45 mph, then 23 miles total range is about right.

If the 14 miles to and from the trails are 35-45 mph, they'll use about half or a bit less of the 2012 pack.

[gadget123]

Zero Hero -- yes, it is street legal. i have all my paperwork from the dealer and i am just waiting for the license plate to arrive in a few weeks. i bought the bike from the closest dealer to san diego. where do you ride in oceanside? i am new to san diego and don't really know anywhere here yet.

Jay -- i don't want to use this forum to bash a dealer. i do think i overpaid for the bike, but whatever. they don't know much about the bike, but i suppose i was able to eventually figure out what i needed. at least with this dealer i can bring my bike in for warranty work. it would suck if i had to drive it up to LA every time something happened to the bike. i really like this bike, btw. i would recommend it to anyone wanting an electric dirt bike...and even someone just wanting a commuter bike. it's really easy to ride. i think i'm gonna ride it this upcoming weekend out on a real trail. i'll post my experience here for anyone interested. if you don't care about spending $11,000 to $12,000 then i say to get it. as for how long it will last on a charge: i would now say i could get almost 25 miles with this type of ride:

6 miles at 55
6 miles at 40
6 miles at 30
6 miles under 30

there are a decent amount of hills in that 24 miles. nothing really steep but probably about 3 miles of that commute is uphill at an average grade of maybe 5% (obviously i am just making my best guess but it's probably pretty close). if you have that type of commute then i think you'll be ok. i suppose you could get 38 miles if you averaged below 30 for the entire trip and had no hills at all. i actually am considering traveling with my charger sometimes...and another member recommended mounting it on the bike (like the xu)...but i think you will have to remove it when you are on the trails. anyhow, if your drive is 7 miles to the trail then i think you're gonna be disappointed. even if you only go 30mph you'll probably only have about half a charge for the trail riding (like protomech said). i think you need the extra battery (just like me). and you have to carry it with you to the trail.

i hope the dealer didn't give me an old battery. i sorta doubt that the old battery would work with the new charger anyhow.

***i am painting all the plastic panels with the decals tomorrow or the next day. i'll post my pics here (unless it looks stupid).

lastly, if you are considering getting one then my advice (unsolicited, i know) would be to get it when it first comes out...this way you will get to enjoy it as long as possible before a better bike comes out (which will happen) and you want to upgrade to that one. one thing i am pretty sure about with electric motorcycles for the next few years: they are not going down in price...they seem to always be implementing newer/more expensive technology in each revision of their products.

[Richard230]

I am not convinced that electric motorcycles will be getting much less expensive in the next few years, but I do think they will be providing increasing and noticeable performance and range every couple of years, until the technology matures.  After that happens, the industry settles down, the number of specialty suppliers increases and electric vehicles become more mainstream, then I think you will finally start to see prices drop to more typical IC motorcycle costs.  Also, note that gas-powered motorcycle prices are going up every year due to emission requirements, government regulations (such as requiring ABS on all motorcycles) and economic reasons.  I think electric and gas-powered motorcycle prices will be very comparable in a few years. But that may not be because EV prices (at least in the U.S and Europe) have dropped much. It may be because EV prices have leveled off and IC prices have increased to EV levels.

[zap mc]

We have yet to see a major manufacturer enter the E bike market and bring with them mass production methods and designs to reduce prices probably because the technology is still advancing quite rapidly as we are moving to to the brushless era.

Stop and think about the amazing complexity of a modern IC engine and how much it costs, then think of how much engineering you are getting from an electric motorcycle and you will appreciate how wide this gap is. Most current bikes are just mass produced prototypes and not engineered production machines.

[protomech]

But they are moving in that direction.

I think next year's bikes will be more productized and cheaper versions of this year's - possibly with some optional features integrated. (I think in particular Zero will upgrade its charger and integrate J1772).

Compare the 2010 S to the 2012 XU. XU has 75% of the battery, similar peak top speed, belt drive, brushless motor. Cost dropped from $10000 to $7700.

In two years we'll probably have a freeway-capable 4-5 kwh bike at $6000. I expect that's when we'll see sales really start to take off.

gadget123 - Zero has used the QuiQ charger for a couple of years, so at least one model of the QuiQ does work with older batteries. It's possible that the cable breakouts are different. In any case, you almost certainly have the new battery - does it say ZF3 on the side?