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[manlytom]

Just wondering Trikester what the symptoms of worn brushes would be? Someone said rough riding. Have you ever replaced brushes? Someone on another forum said it is easy and takes 5 min. if you have the brushes, but they weren't talking about an Agni motor specifically. How easy would it be to get to the motor and replace the brushes is my question and secondly, is this something that will need to be done every 10,000 miles, 20,000 miles or maybe never? dkw

Hi, I had an early Agni motor in my 2010 replaced with suspected misaligned brushes. The symptoms were strong grinding, intermittent - usually when riding harder and motor warm. Then bike stalls, won't start till cooled down. runs for a couple of miles, grinds, stalls. happened to me right in the middle of a 3 lane in rushour with no lane to pull out --- great fun 
Guess you will know when it comes to motor / brushes problems. Zero replaced the motor with one that they had wound themselves -- to improve quality of the motor. That one seemed to work and run later into BMS (batter management system) problems.
As for swapping the brushes, below manual goes into detail and you can judge for yourself if you are up for it.
http://www.agnimotors.com/workshop_manual_v1.pdf

cheers
T

[manlytom]

I have no idea what causes your stalling problems, but I will hazard a guess. If your bikes were running fine for the past couple of years and then this shut-down problem just started, I would guess that the issue is not software, but hardware that is getting worn due to environmental conditions or road vibration. So I would start looking for worn or corroded contacts that might result in an intermittent issue.  I think the first thing I would do is to remove the throttle assembly and check its contacts and connections. That seems like the most likely suspect to me.

I might add that on my 2012 Zero S, Zero replaced my throttle assembly (as well as updating the software to their latest program) when I complained about two intermittent stalling events. So far I have had no more stalling or running issues, but I plan to give the bike a good run this weekend just to make sure.

My 2010 had problems as soon as I reached 1000kms or about 3 months. Hence pretty new I guess. Anyway for me thats history now and more worried that the 2011 has intermittent issues when I flick the throttle quickly. In fact your hint at the throttle assembly might be a good place to start. Now to do this out here will be difficult - no Zero tech that can stop by here ....
T

[zap mc]

the motors just normally fry and you can smell that
throttles are just 0-5k ohm units and you can replace them easily enough if you dont want to pay Zero $100 for one
the brushes are not too bad to do but they are fiddly to set up as you have to set the advance angle quite accurately and there is a certain procedure to do this, see you tube somewhere...
It may be the bms inside the battery box ( the contactor is in there too unlike the X ) as they are prone to causing problems, get zero to send you a later one but you willl have to take the battery out to do it which is a BIG job, it will be a good opportunity to take a look inside for other gremlins
 ( tried to post a pic of it but the size limit is 600kb and my pic is too big, really annoying can anyone in admin sort this?)

[dkw12002]

Thanks for the info on brushes. What I would do is take it back to my dealer if I developed problems. They could take the motor out and send it off to be fixed I'm sure. A new Agni motor is about $1600 retail from Agni, so with Zero involved a new motor might be even cheaper and an alternative to trying to fix anything if you have to take the motor off to begin with. Just trying to think ahead. Agni probably does brushes, rebuilds, new motors, etc. I suppose if Zero changed the motor somehow, then all bets are off, but it looks like the 95R stock motor. So far, the bike operates very nicely and I ride it every day. Just passed 1500 miles.

[trikester]

Egads! I have just under 700 miles on the bike - I can't believe that I have worn out brushes already. I think it must be something else.

Trikester

[dkw12002]

Oh no, I'm not diagnosing your trouble. I have no idea what's causing that problem.  I'm just thinking out loud what I would do if I had bad brushes some time in the future on my own 2011 Zero S. Hope you can get it straightened out though and it turns out to be something simple.

[Harlan]

Trikester, sounds like a contactor problem. Bring it to the shop and we can fix it. Your bike is still under warranty, right? So we should take care of it sooner rather than wait.

[trikester]

OK Harlan, I'll figure out when I can bring it in. Right now it is out at my desert cabin (so am I). I brought my '47 Matchless out here for the annual antique motorcycle rides (over 100 riders this year!). I'll have to decide if I want to leave the Matchless out here so that I can haul the 2010 back to town with me, or wait until the next time I come out here.

it should still be under warranty since I took delivery in mid-August of 2010 and also, the first time it shut down was last winter (2011).

[Richard230]

A 1947 Matchbox, Trikester?  What you need is one of these:   http://www.youtube.com/embed/iKqpvriKZuA       

[trikester]

Excellent!!!

[oobflyer]

After 1,300 miles it started happening to me too.

The first time was a couple of weeks ago - I was riding to work in 'Sport' mode. I was waiting at a red light and when it turned green I turned the throttle... and nothing happened. I had to push the bike out of traffic so the cars behind me could go.

The second time was a couple of days ago - I was riding in town at night in 'Eco' mode. Again at a red light the throttle didn't respond and I had to get out of the way of the angry folks behind me (honking their horns).

In both cases turning the key off and back on did the trick as far as reseting it so I could move again. Since I was in sortof a panic to get out of the way I didn't look at the dash to see if there were any warning lights flashing.

I spoke with Zero and the dealership - they asked me to bring the bike in for the software update - I just have to coordinate with the dealership - it will be a few weeks before I can get the bike there, as the Zero technician doesn't usually work weekends.

[Richard230]

When my bike stalled I looked at the instrument panel and there were no warning lights or messages on the screen. Everything looked normal, but it just wouldn't go.  So far, since the program update and the throttle replacement, everything has been working fine. But I only have 600 miles on the bike.

My guess would be that it is a mechanical issue with the throttle not getting the "go" signal to the controller. It seems to me that a programming issue would occur much more often. 

[blake]

All this talk has me, as a prospective buyer, rather worried. It suggests that the bikes are not very reliable over time, that the longevity of some key parts is more short-lived than the battery, and that those of us not blessed with living near the Zero headquarters could be in for a real unpleasant ownership experience, potentially (especially with the extra hassle of cross-border shipping and duty fees for parts, delays, etc). Have I misread between the lines here?

[Richard230]

My bike was number 51 off the assembly line. With any new product, you can expect some issues. If they get addressed quickly by the factory, then the customers who buy later models should have no problems.  I have been buying BMW motorcycles for the past 25 years and I can tell you that every one of them had lots of problems that needed to be resolved under their 3-year warranty. The newer the model is the more issues the customer is stuck with.  So far I have only had the one very minor problem with my bike stalling at an intersection twice in 300 miles.  That problem seems to have been resolved and my Zero has been very reliable ever since.  That is a lot better track record than I had with my two Electric Motorsport GPR-S bikes and all of the BMWs that I have owned over the years.

Based upon my experience, I wouldn't worry too much about the reliability of the 2012 Zero models.

[blake]

ok. I'll have to remember to ask my local dealer what production number the one is that is already in his showroom (with my name on it)...

blake