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[Richard230]

Here is an interesting, but long, video where the developer of the BRD motorcycle gives a seminar about the development of their motorcycle and the future of the EV industry:

[zap mc]

Thanks for that post Richard, some VERY interesting stuff there with Marc making some very cogent points. The energy of the company reminds me of Zero in the early days.

[ZeroSinMA]

It's clear the man knows his market, customer, technology, and business, and is bright and dedicated. Good man.

But to succeed he needs to scale, and for that he needs capital, and for that he needs to have a team that can produce sustainable differentiation from Zero as the market leader.

He can't do it on battery technology. Zero has him there.

And Zero just leapfrogged him on the drive train, too: Regenerative braking is the other half of the range advantage of the 2011 Zero over the earlier models.

That leaves the frame.

Not much.

[zap mc]

Zero just buy in someone elses cells and strap them all together, there is no usp there and cells are a constantly evolving technology so a manufacturer will need flexibility of supply to remain on the cutting edge of battery cell performance. Zero started with Molicell and are now with someone else after lots of battery failures initiallly. They have no lead over anyone that i can see other than continuing to source the best performing cells.
The BRD drive train is well more advanced than the Zero. Higher voltage which gives higher revs and a greater spread of power, PLUS water cooling which Zero dont even have yet.
The only reason Zero are where they are is that they are surviving on large multi million dollar handouts from Invus and the Californian Govt. They do not make anywhere near a profit and so their business model is not sustainable. Do the math and you will see that they are basically bankrupt. I will be surprised to see if they last past the end of this year without more funding. The income from the first batch of BRD bikes will fund the next run and the company can grow organically in a real way rather than just existing in a false bubble of funding that will never be repaid. Unless some Elon Musk comes along to support them.
The Zero frame started out as the core of the company philospohy of a super light bike which takes less energy to move along but that has now been forgotten as the bikes have just got fatter and heavier each year, the BRD trumps it on weight and also it is designed to be assembled much easier as the frame is not made of loads of parts welded together. Regen adds very little back to the overall package and it can always be added later as we have seen.
What does excite me is that the BRD looks like it is the first and only bike to be on par with gas bike performance and in that way it is streets ahead of Zero and every other bike in the world.

[fasterfaster]

Hi folks, Marc from BRD here. Just joined the forum. Glad to see the lively discussion going on here. I'll do my best to answer questions if you have them.

I'll head off *some* of those questions by saying that the RedShift is simply a different bike for different customers than Brammos or the Zeros, and you're not going to be able to get me to do anything but cheer for both of them and any others that build electrics. We want as many electric options out there as possible, testing as many different segments as we can.

ZeroSinMA, I'd say we need much more than differentiation from Zero. We (as an industry, not just BRD) need to compete with very, very competent gas bikes. We shouldn't be using other electrics as our metric; we should be using the best in class gas powered bikes as our benchmark. That's what 98% of our customers are doing, and they have no intention of buying an electric unless the electric compares well.

[zap mc]

Thanks for the insight Marc, do you have a timeline in place yet for the rollout of production bikes?

[fasterfaster]

zap, the RedShift will be a 2013 model, and if all goes well get them into dealerships beginning this winter. Which means we get to spend this summer hammering the shit out of them. I love my job.

[CliC]

We (as an industry, not just BRD) need to compete with very, very competent gas bikes. We shouldn't be using other electrics as our metric; we should be using the best in class gas powered bikes as our benchmark. That's what 98% of our customers are doing, and they have no intention of buying an electric unless the electric compares well.

Spot on. I look forward to the day when discussions involving electric bikes aren't in the "world's tallest midget" category. In other words, out of the realm of "what's the best electric bike for me", and into "what's the best _bike_ for me" (though I suppose you'll never win over the "loud pipes save lives" crowd).

Thanks for the insight, and good luck to you and BRD.

[fasterfaster]

I look forward to the day when discussions involving electric bikes aren't in the "world's tallest midget" category.

Welcome to that day (okay... early 2013):

And that’s what I think the real story with the RedShift is —it’s the first production-destined motorcycle to ever realize the full potential of electric motivation and, in doing so, demonstrate a clear superiority to its ICE predecessors.

http://hellforleathermagazine.com/2012/07/riding-the-brd-redshift-sm-on-the-snake/

[CliC]

Then I look forward to the day I get a test ride, too