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[Justin Andrews]

What are you riding, a ZF9, s or ds?

[NoiseBoy]

Have you tried measuring the power you are putting back in with the charger oobflyer?  A kill-a-watt style meter from Amazon is a useful purchase.  It will give you an idea of how much power you were actually using.

Someone on here with a ZF9 had their dash accidentally reprogrammed for a ZF6 so range looked very poor but there was actually plenty of juice left.

The speed limit here is 40mph so I probably do similar speeds to you and I get 90 miles before reserve in sport mode.  Im confident i could do 150 in eco during the summer if i tried.

[ColoPaul]

I rode there on backroads, never exceeding 35 MPH, in ECO mode. The ride took over two hours and I got there with one bar left on the gauge (6.6 miles/bar). 
If folks are making 50 mile trips on 5 bars - that's 10 miles/bar.  Is that what I should be expecting?

I see from other posts you have a ZF9.  6.6 miles/bar or a total of ~6.6*11 = 72 miles of range at 35 MPH is not very good.   At 35mph, I'd get about 6-7 miles/per bar.  I have a ZF6 so since you have 1.5x more battery you should see 6-7 *1.5 = 9-10.5 miles/bar at that rate.

I agree with Noiseboy, have you measured how much is going back in?   I may be the guy noiseboy was referring to - I accidentally had my bike reprogrammed to think it was a ZF9.  So for awhile, I was getting the 9-10 miles/bar but it wasn't real.  If for some reason your bike thinks it's a ZF6 that would explain everything.    If you use up 10-11 bars, and then measure how much it takes to charge with a kill-o-watt, and it comes up about 6kWH - then that's the problem.   If it says about 9kWH - you have another issues.

Good luck

[oobflyer]

Thanks - I do have a Kil-o-watt meter - I'll try that.

[benswing]

Oobflyer, I get 7mi/bar going 55mi/hr with a couple of heavy chargers on the back of my 2012 ZF9.  When it is cold the range will dip, but I'll still get 6mi/bar going 55mi/hr.  I don't think it makes a difference for steady speeds, but I have a size 6 controller, so my new eco mode is just like the old sport mode with the size 4 controller. 

I agree with measuring how much charge goes back into your battery.  After a long ride with only a bar or two left, I usually get about 6.5-7kW of charge.  The most charge I have put into the bike was about 8.1kWh and that was after depleting all the bars, then riding past the 1.5 invisible bars until the voltage dropped and acceleration decreased.

[oobflyer]

There is something wrong! I rode the bike until the last bar disappeared, plugged it in and it only charged 7.4 kW. If I understand correctly, with the 9 kW battery pack it should have charged more than 9 kW. I'll be calling Zero today.

[oobflyer]

benswing

The most charge I have put into the bike was about 8.1kWh and that was after depleting all the bars...

You also have a ZF9? Considering the energy loss during charging it should take a little more than the maximum battery capacity to charge up the pack - right? (Help me out here you engineers out there). With a depleted 9 kWh battery pack it should take about 10 kW of electricity from the grid to charge it back up, correct? Likewise - like ColoPaul said, with a ZF6 it should take about 6 kW to charge up a depleted 6 kWh pack (a little more for energy losses during charging). I'm getting exactly the kind of range that ColoPaul is getting on his ZF6.

I'll let you know what they say after talking to someone at Zero.

[protomech]

Nominal capacity for the ZF9 pack is 7.9 kWh. Likely not all of that is available - for example, the last bar disappears with approximately 12% SOC remaining IIRC.

The most I ever charged in a single charge was 9.05 kWh, from full to well below the final bar disappearing, just before low voltage cutout (6% SOC).

If you started at (say) 97%, the pack "lost" 6.7 kWh (7.9 kWh * (97% - 12%) .. charging with 85% efficiency should take about 7.9 kWh, plus a bit if the BMS balances the cells. So it seems like your capacity is down by around 5-10%.

However, a stock bike should see 9-10 miles/bar at 35 mph. So it sounds like maybe something else is going on too.

[benswing]

Looked at my data more closely and 2 or 3 times I pulled 9.2kWh after riding until the low voltage cutout. 

I agree with protomech and have gotten as many as 12-13mi/bar at 25 mi/hr, so getting 9-10mi/bar at 35mi/hr should work.

[NoiseBoy]

Have you checked your tyre pressure and belt tension recently?

[oobflyer]

Haven't checked the belt tension, but I keep my tires inflated to recommended pressures (32 PSI front, 35 PSI rear).

I spoke with Ryan at Zero this morning. It sounds like there may be a combination of things wrong - it's not drawing the 9 kW during charging, and it's not getting 10 miles/bar - even at low speeds. I'll be taking my bike to the Zero factory (Scott's Valley, near Santa Cruz) in a few days. It should be interesting to see what they find.

[ColoPaul]

FWIW,  On my ZF6,  I have seen 6kWH on the kilowatt a half-dozen times;   Once I saw 6.4 kWH.

7.4 is way more that that however, so the mis-programmed theory is probably wrong.

Good thing you live near Zero!!   Keep us updated.

[BSDThw]

so the mis-programmed theory is probably wrong.

SOC algorithm are complex therefore  the  6 or 9 KW is only one "correction" parameter for the different situation during calculation and recalculation!

If you use the 6KW setting it maybe reduce the calculated results always because "logic" tells "it is to high" => it will be between 6 and 9KW.

It could still be a wrong setting. but it is interesting to learn what the problem will be.

[Doctorbass]

In the Main Bike Board, the display gauge have a setting  set to 10% pessimistic capacity on my ZF9. The MBB take account of the temperature, blaance state of the cells  and keep a history of the measured capacity to determine the actual capacity.  It also count the coulomb charged to the battery and compare to the dishcarged capacity. I discovered that when i installeld my 6.6kW fast DIY compact charger... When connecting the charger to the battery directly ( thru the controller lead) the battery gauge became unadjusted and was showing a lower charged capacity than reality.

And once i connected the deltaQ cahrger to the plug for just few second the battery bar was readjusted automaticly on the next start up. wich mean that the voltage of the pack  probably have also some effect on the bar.

Doc

[Electric Cowboy]

I think it has a lot to do with riding style. 

I have a ZF6 and get the following

without fairings I get the following range :
90-100 mph       30-35 miles depending on wind
80-90  mph        32-38 miles depending on wind
65-80  mph        38-42 miles depending on wind
50-65  mph        40-45 miles depending on wind
don't know slower than this as I rarely go that slow for any duration of consequence.

with my race fairings I get the following range :
90-105 mph       30-35 miles depending on wind
80-90  mph        35-40 miles depending on wind
65-80  mph        40-45 miles depending on wind
50-65  mph        45-55 miles depending on wind
don't know slower than this as I rarely go that slow for any duration of consequence.

-EC