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[Iowa]

Hello!
I'm interested in the Zero S/DS (mainly because they seem to be the only e-bikes with belt drives). 
I've only seen a few descriptions of the commutes people have been taking.  Regarding range, could I get some advice on this commute?

34 miles total round-trip, flat terrain (Iowa)
One-way trip:
3 miles @ 55 mph (back-highway approaching city)
5 miles @ 45 mph (back-highway approaching city)
9 miles @ 35 mph (urban stop-n-go)

I can charge-up at work, but I'd like to be able to do the whole loop on a single charge.
Thanks in advance,
James

[picasso]

I don't think you can do it. Would just be a few miles under but might make it on limp.  Even just a 1 hour charge would get you home. I do not own a DS. so I shouldnt comment but I did.

[Richard230]

From the magazine road tests that I have read, I think your commute is doable. The flat ground is helpful, but the variable would be if you had to run against the wind. I hear it can get pretty windy in Iowa. Running 34 miles, half against a strong headwind, might leave you pushing. Charging up at work would be a smart idea on windy days - unless of course you live somewhere where the wind always is at your back.   

[Harlan]

James,

Although ideally you would charge up at work, I don't think you would have any problem making round trip commute without charging.  Zero has a very helpful website with a few different scenarios to illustrate exactly what to range to expect.

http://www.zeromotorcycles.com/range/

[manlytom]

Hi Iowa,

should be fine. I have a similar commute -- just in km's not miles. After round trip charge is good half full and that is the 2010 model. I have additionally uphill sections at good speed.
I cannot charge up at work and have done the commute plus some further site trips during the day all no problem.

Seems that their guidance of 50 miles / 80kms is about right.

then - how aggressive will you ride ? This will make a big difference. If you go full speed up to a traffic light and then brake last second or race the other bikes/cars of the line you use much more ...

what is great with the Zero is that once up to speed it rolls a long way as no motor braking etc... so you can manage the range quite flexible.

In any case -- it is a lot fun riding it.

cheers
Tom

[Iowa]

Thanks for all the replies!  I thought my commute might be right on the edge of the range.  Zero's range scenarios did leave me optimistic.  (I hadn't thought about the "natural wind," aside from just going 55mph.)  The link that Harlan posted is great because of the data they add to back it up.  I'd like to see more e-bike owners, of all brands, do something similar to help us prospective owners.  I wouldn't expect anyone to be able to track their metrics with that much detail.  I'd like to get a Zero, and I intend to create something to help out in this manner.  Gathering info is especially tough with all the brands, all the models, the different years they have been available, and the different options within a given year.

Last night I just watched the one-hour Google Tech Talk with Neal Saiki(from 2009) on YouTube.  Someone posted this in another thread.  It was promising to hear that he designed the bike to be upgradable.  So I'm guessing worst case is in the meantime I charge up at work and be careful on weekend errands, etc.  Then a couple years from now I get a battery-pack upgrade.

That's a great video BTW.  He covered a lot of design points, like "why a brushed motor instead of brushless?"  His overall presentation made me feel a lot better about Zero versus the other brands I've been considering.

Thanks again!

[manlytom]

Hi Iowa

don't want to make you worried but I am yet to find out how to upgrade from my Zero S 2010 to items from the 2011 model. Guess if I end up needing a new battery I will find out. In terms of size it will fit. electronics etc. not sure.

You might quiz Zero on upgrades and what this in particular entails.

The bike is fun to commute with, ride around, and the 2011 models add a lot of missing items - belt drive, 17" tires, better battery pack, controls displays. Would love to "upgrade" to all of these but guess I need to try and trade-in when the bikes come out in Australia eventually.

cheers
T

[picasso]

Iowa if you do get an Electric bike check out the Cycle Analyst + Analogger. I have the Cycle Analyst on my bike but no logging device yet. It makes it easy to be stingy on the power. http://www.ebikes.ca/drainbrain.shtml

[Marshm]

While on the topic of range, does anyone have any experience with range for offroad trail riding?  I looked at the link above for Zero's range info.  No info for offroad.  The factors of elevation gain and not smooth ground hurt range, but the slow speeds, under 25mph should help range.  I am still left guessing.  Seems like less info and not many bike updates on the offroad side.  Kind of gives me the idea that maybe they are planning to drop their offroad lines. 

[gasdive]

I've done a little light trail riding and found that it seemed to use slightly less power per km than riding on the road, but I was riding on flat hard surfaces and very slowly.  Really mountain bike speed rather than m/c speed.  I found that I needed to ride at 20-25 km/h to stop the fan coming on.  Any slower seemed to overheat the motor enough to start the fan. 

=:)

[gasdive]

...don't want to make you worried but I am yet to find out how to upgrade from my Zero S 2010 to items from the 2011 model...

The word from Phil about what I would think would be the *simplest* upgrade, getting the standard fitment front tyre is basically, no.  "With regards to the front tire it might be worth giving Graeme Boyd a call at Suzuki Newcastle (02) 4952 1577 and ask him what type of tire he fitted to the front of a Zero DS that He recently sold. We had another guy with the same request and found this to be a better local solution."

I've emailed Duro dist in Australia to see if they can help as it's not a listed size.  I really feel that with Neal gone and his vision for modular upgradable bikes apparently gone with him we (early adopters) are going to be left out in the cold. 

I wonder how you'd go if you buy a 2011 bike, the standard tyre size is (as far as I can tell) completely unavailable in a dual sport pattern and changing the size to something different may void your insurance.

Brammo on the other hand gives current owners a 2500 discount off the new version.  They don't sell here in Australia but in the USA that discount is applied as a rebate, after the federal government one.  So you get the full 10% federal rebate plus any state rebates as well.  That would be enough that many owners could sell second hand, upgrade and have nothing out of pocket.  Basically swap an old bike for a new one for nothing. 

http://www.brammo.com/press-releases/articles.php?lang=fr

Enertia to Enertia Plus

Enertia customers will be eligible for a Brammo loyalty rebate of $2500 when purchasing the Enertia Plus during 2011

Of course if you live in Oklahoma you don't even need to sell the old one.  Buy a new Enertia Plus and pay only 1098. 

http://brammofan.wordpress.com/tag/tax-incentives/

it makes me want to cry....

=:)

[manlytom]

the Zero so far is fun fun fun to ride with. the 16 inch wheel makes it corner quite nice. Ok, no idea yet how to get a new tire. I worry when it is time. will get my dealer to deliver or just order from the US directly.
 had a guy on a HUUGGE BMW cruiser with his stereo on and microphone helmet stop next to me and being way interested... so a second bike to all of these !
so if you can do the commute with it - Jdo it

[Richard230]

I think the Buell Blast used a 16" wheel and some mid-1980's motorcycles did also. Then too, there are some big-wheel scooters, such as made by Aprilia, that use 16" wheels - I think. My guess is that if you need to replace your tires, you should be able to track down some 16" tires, but it may require some digging, as they are not too popular and typically not advertised in magazines or most motorcycle accessory catalogs.

[gasdive]

I emailed Duro in Australia,

"Hi Guys,

The Zero DS 2011 model shows Duro tyres in size 100/80-17 front and
110/90-16.  I don't know which version they are as they're not marked
on my tyres, but the tread pattern looks like what your brochure calls
"Median" and what the Duro website calls HF-904 Median.    The web site
shows the 110/90-16 but not the 100/80-17, the brochure shows neither...

Do you or can you bring in these sizes?"

Their response was:

"Unfortunately those sizes are not currently imported, at this point there are no
plans to bring those sizes in."

Sadly the 16 inch front wheeled bikes were all road bikes, so there are no dual sport options for them.  However it's the front that's the real issue.  I haven't found any dual sport tyres in 100/80-17 or 3.50-17 size.

Zero now lists the 16 inch rear for the 2010 DS as a spare part.  It's an eye watering 197.05.  For a 16 inch dual sport tyre from Taiwan...  Compare that with a similar size, the 130/90-16 (that might fit... or might not, there's not much clearance to the mudguard) at $75.27, just over a third of the price.  The 110/90-16 should be cheaper than that.

http://www.bikebandit.com/duro-hf904-median-motorcycle-tire

Bike bandit don't export outside the USA. 

Whatever the issues with tyres, it seems to be a symptom of a problem with spares and upgrades.  That's the real issue here.  If my experience with tyres is an indicator for other parts the spares are either twice the right price or unavailable. 

[Richard230]

It occurs to me that the Kawasaki 250 Ninja up to 2007 (or whenever its latest redesign was) used 16 inch tires. That should be a pretty big market, as that bike was quite popular. Therefore there should be a source of relatively decent tires available from some manufacturer to keep these customers happy.  Perhaps calling your local Kawasaki dealer's parts department might set you off in the right direction to find a source for 16 inch tires.