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Author Topic: ... and now a word from our ergonomist  (Read 1257 times)

bentoronto

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... and now a word from our ergonomist
« on: June 24, 2010, 01:39:37 AM »

You'd think a guy who had only one scoot on a Zero would keep his mouth shut, but...

1. What does the throttle do - control acceleration or speed or in what proportions feels ergonomically right? And in what kind of transfer curves? The "volume" control on radios is a carefully thought-out transfer curve relating the angle of the knob and the loudness. IC bikes and cars have their own curves that usually feel about right (modern bikes have quarter-turn throttles although most of the action takes place in the first 20 degrees).

2. Should an ebike make noise, if so what? When slowing for an intersection? When the turn signal is on? And not least, during stops or dismounts? (IC bikes ordinarily stall if accidentally kicked into gear at stops but ebikes go!).

3. How to speed the transfer of training from IC engine braking? Tech fixes? "Learner's mode" of some kind which inadvertently wastes energy during the learning period? "Single knob" control of both acceleration and deceleration? Should the brake onset curve have an "early extra grab" function to sort of replicate the feel of engine braking added to mechanical braking? Should there be a proportionality valve actuating front and rear brakes, again in a manner replicating the force of engine braking on the rear wheel? (Many of us all but ignore rear brakes on IC bikes, although we have engine braking on the rear wheel which influences handling without being obvious.)

Ben

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biking 49 seasons, BMW boxer twins last 44
urban and touring

Brammofan

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Re: ... and now a word from our ergonomist
« Reply #1 on: June 24, 2010, 03:16:56 AM »

Lots to ponder there, ben.
1. I love the throttle curve of my Brammo.  I have no idea how it balances acceleration and speed... it just feels right, without too much thought on my part. 
2. It makes plenty of noise, thankyouverymuch, and if someone gets in my way, I have a horn.  I actually like the idea of a turn signal noise because, mea culpa, I have found myself realizing that I've left my blinker on for blocks without realizing it. 
3. I coast a lot. The Brammo has no regen, and that's fine with me.  I do use my rear brake, but it's maybe a 70-30 proposition, front to rear. 

There's some discussion along these lines on the brammo owners forum.  You don't have to be an owner to join.  And I doubt that skadamo, the proprietor of this fine forum will mind if I share the link with you: www.brammforum.com.

How about the ergonomics of kickstands?  Do you have any thoughts about that?
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2010 Brammo Enertia

bentoronto

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Re: ... and now a word from our ergonomist
« Reply #2 on: June 24, 2010, 03:58:09 AM »

snip 
2. It makes plenty of noise, thankyouverymuch, and if someone gets in my way, I have a horn.  I actually like the idea of a turn signal noise because, mea culpa, I have found myself realizing that I've left my blinker on for blocks without realizing it. 
3. I coast a lot. The Brammo has no regen, and that's fine with me.  I do use my rear brake, but it's maybe a 70-30 proposition, front to rear. 
snip

How about the ergonomics of kickstands?  Do you have any thoughts about that?

Thanks for info. Some noise is needed like for idiot pedestrians using cellphones and blind pedestrians. Prolly not feasible to make "loud mufflers save lives" level of racket against car drivers.

Manufacturers who embrace complexity do a number of things with sidestands - some of which can be applied to electric bikes.

Some retract by themselves when you lift the pressure off them so that you aren't riding off into that left curve in the sunset with the stand down.

Some kill the engine if down when you kick into gear and/or have a complex logic related to neutral gear, cranking, and clutch lever.

Geometry has a lot to do with effectiveness as a stand on different surfaces, angles, etc. Some bikers carry empty pop cans as shoes for their ill-designed sidestand.

Good to be able to sense/see the sidestand when on the bike and to have a design that kicks easily up and down with your boot.

Sidestands and centerstands serve slightly different purposes and so are helpful on heavy oil-filled bikes. My guess is that an ebike should have a sidestand but also a garage-dwelling service centerstand when changing wheels and other servicing.

Ben, maybe not even worth 2-cents.
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Brammofan

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Re: ... and now a word from our ergonomist
« Reply #3 on: June 24, 2010, 05:09:29 AM »

The sidestand, if down, lights up a little icon on the speedometer, and also there is a message in the lcd display "Kickstand is down".  You can't engage the drive mode until you put it up.  My problem with it is that the foot is small (it sank about an inch into the asphalt of my parking lot today, but it's 93 degrees here in KC) and it seems to lean the bike at a fairly severe angle. 

I am planning to purchase a pit stand so that I can perform basic service on the bike.
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2010 Brammo Enertia

bentoronto

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Re: ... and now a word from our ergonomist
« Reply #4 on: June 24, 2010, 05:59:52 AM »

If you'd rather not carry around an empty pop can (with a memory string to the bars), shouldn't be hard to attach a foot. BMW bikes have aftermarket suppliers with names like "Big Foot."
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biking 49 seasons, BMW boxer twins last 44
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