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[KuRi]

Hi All,

after having spent "only" 15 days with my new ZERO DSRX MY 2024 and almost 1000km, here are my thoughts:

The good:
- The motor works perfectly, lot of torque and power (too much, maybe). I ride mostly in Eco and Rain modes to save battery life.
- The electronics works nice (heated grips, reverse, abs, traction control). Everything works as expected.
- The bike while riding, and once most of the rattles were fixed, is very silent and smooth.
- Battery charging also as expected. I have a 2.2 kwh charger (normal charger) and one 6.6 kwh (wall charger). When charging at 2.2 it takes 3.5h to charge 50% (numbers as expected). The 6.6kwh wall charger only provides 3.3kwh to the dsrx (because of monophasic installation).
- The size and the weight of the bike is not relevant, it is very easy to handle and much more fun to ride than my previous DSR 2020.

The so-so:
- Mine was assembled on the new plant on philippines. The quality of the assembly is BAD. Most plastics are not centered, bad aligned, noisy, loose and rattle. I have solved most of them by myself, but others requires a lot of fairing dissasembly that I am not going to do right now.
- Handlebar was not well aligned (I could resolve this myself).
- Battery life is not as good as I expected. The numbers by Zero are pretty exact. Highway at 115 kmh (plain roads) and you can ride 130km, not more. I don't know why I was expecting more (maybe because most reviews I saw on youtube were of people with 250km of estimated range at 100% Soc and they were riding at +90kmh).

The bad:
- Today while trying to charge I got an "Isolation Fault" and was unable to charge (no water, just maybe some humidity on the garage). I got some errors on the dashboard and was only able to charge after 5-6 hours waiting. Then the errors dissapear and after a full charge I was able to ride again.
- Dealer is far from home (350km) so every time I need them to check something, I need to send the bike and it is very expensive and slow (this is not exactly Zero's fault, but I have been expecting for a closer dealer for several years).

I don't know yet if I am happy with the change (from my 2020 DSR that worked brilliant for 5 years, no issues). Right now most of the (non critical) faults are aesthetics and rattles, but if the Isolation Fault happens again I will schedule a visit to the dealer for investigation.

Hope this helps, thanks for reading!

[Grauteufel]

I'm curious as to how you fixed the rattles on the zero, and what the components under the skirts look like. The barely bolted together feel of the zero is what turned me off after a demo ride, and left me wondering how well the rest was put together. I've taken the energica apart a few times now, and even though it felt a lot more solid than the zero, there's a few things (such as glued items not remaining glued) that aren't thrilling. Does the internal assembly of the zero give you faith it'll last? Looking at options for a third bike for the missus.

[KuRi]

I'm curious as to how you fixed the rattles on the zero, and what the components under the skirts look like. The barely bolted together feel of the zero is what turned me off after a demo ride, and left me wondering how well the rest was put together. I've taken the energica apart a few times now, and even though it felt a lot more solid than the zero, there's a few things (such as glued items not remaining glued) that aren't thrilling. Does the internal assembly of the zero give you faith it'll last? Looking at options for a third bike for the missus.

My previous DSR 2020 was very well built, very solid and reliable. Not a single rattle after 5 years, very impressive. (Assembled in California)

The new DSRX looks cheap (that is the best word to describe it). The motor is awesome and I like the new technology, but the plastic feel of the bike is very sad. To me, it looks like a very cheap chinese bike. The screws were tight but everything is offset and can be moved with the hands, with cracking and rattles everywhere (seat, fairing, screen, headlight...). Not sure if it will go worse or not with the time, one of the most annoying rattle dissapeared itself after 3-4 days. The dealer told me to bring the bike to fix it, but I really doubt it can be fixed easily.

This is what Zero did to make things cheaper... ok... but it is very noticeable. I am not as happy as with the previous DSR 2020, sorry Zero.

Cheers!

[Richard230]

My 2018 Zero S is was assembled in California and was built as well as you might expect from any Japanese brand. 

[zian]

- Today while trying to charge I got an "Isolation Fault" and was unable to charge (no water, just maybe some humidity on the garage). I got some errors on the dashboard and was only able to charge after 5-6 hours waiting. Then the errors dissapear and after a full charge I was able to ride again.

Almost new buyers of Zero got this "Isolation Fault".
I got BMS logs with dealer.
Conclusion : it's a software bug, because faut is with higher Mohms value as fault clear.
In my case, 2000km with Zero S and 3 monthes, already "3 isolation fault".

4702238 ohms => Fault set ... 3354997 ohms => Fault clear
5008448 ohms => Fault set ... 2548091 ohms => Fault clear (this time with also "Battery Ineligible" set)
2846579 ohms => Fault set ... 2033755 ohms => Fault clear

Embedded software engineer should check one line in their C code with one inversion of > and < ...

[GS-A-Day]

Regarding the DSR/X looking or feeling cheap: I wonder if there is a difference between 2024 and 2023 models. I have a 2023 and it does not look or feel cheap--almost as solid as my 2017 BMW R1200GSA.

[Richard230]

Regarding the DSR/X looking or feeling cheap: I wonder if there is a difference between 2024 and 2023 models. I have a 2023 and it does not look or feel cheap--almost as solid as my 2017 BMW R1200GSA.

Perhaps that has something to do with Zero moving their assembly operations to the Philippians last year to save money.   

[princec]

Hmm... I test rode a 2023 model and it felt properly solid to me - better made than my 2020 SR/F.

Cas

[KuRi]

Regarding the DSR/X looking or feeling cheap: I wonder if there is a difference between 2024 and 2023 models. I have a 2023 and it does not look or feel cheap--almost as solid as my 2017 BMW R1200GSA.

Perhaps that has something to do with Zero moving their assembly operations to the Philippians last year to save money.   

This must be it. I’ve watched every single DSR/X review on YouTube and other channels. Some are better assembled than others, but mine is on the worse side.

[Nau]

- Today while trying to charge I got an "Isolation Fault" and was unable to charge (no water, just maybe some humidity on the garage). I got some errors on the dashboard and was only able to charge after 5-6 hours waiting. Then the errors dissapear and after a full charge I was able to ride again.

Almost new buyers of Zero got this "Isolation Fault".
I got BMS logs with dealer.
Conclusion : it's a software bug, because faut is with higher Mohms value as fault clear.
In my case, 2000km with Zero S and 3 monthes, already "3 isolation fault".

4702238 ohms => Fault set ... 3354997 ohms => Fault clear
5008448 ohms => Fault set ... 2548091 ohms => Fault clear (this time with also "Battery Ineligible" set)
2846579 ohms => Fault set ... 2033755 ohms => Fault clear

Embedded software engineer should check one line in their C code with one inversion of > and < ...

which firmware version gave you the error?
I have a 2024 S, so far so good and I'm a bit afraid to update the firmware. At the same time, staying behind also makes me nervous, since I don't know how smoothly a multi version update will go.

Oh damn, how I wish. it was open source, so we could do our fixes ourselves

[KuRi]

Update on the "isolation" error. It was not the bike's fault, but my home's electric installation fault. Somehow for a couple of days I was getting bad volts values and frequency oscillations on the power net. The bike protected itself perfectly. Now it charges without a problem and the orange warning icon dissapeared itself

[Specter]

A touchy computer UPS or one getting ready to give up the ghost can cause those types of issues, especially in stuff that is volt / freq / harmonic sensitive.

Aaron

[TheRan]

Update on the "isolation" error. It was not the bike's fault, but my home's electric installation fault. Somehow for a couple of days I was getting bad volts values and frequency oscillations on the power net. The bike protected itself perfectly. Now it charges without a problem and the orange warning icon dissapeared itself

What makes you think that was the cause? An isolation fault is kind of specific and wouldn't be caused by input voltages or frequencies being slightly off. I had a look to see if there was an error code specific to that and couldn't find one so you'd probably get a more generic code 38 "charger fault". I also tried to find specs of the gen 3 chargers but couldn't find much, however the gen 2 charger could handle 100-264V and 47-63Hz so assuming the gen 3 is similar if not better then your mains supply would have to be pretty damn bad.

A touchy computer UPS or one getting ready to give up the ghost can cause those types of issues, especially in stuff that is volt / freq / harmonic sensitive.

Aaron

I don't usually like to call bullshit without finding proof, but I also failed to find anything even close to proof that what you're saying is true. It doesn't even make much sense logically, the fault would be on the lower voltage side coming out of the PSU and I don't see that then somehow sending something back through the transformer that then also affects the rest of the circuit (if the bike and the computer were even on the same circuit), while also not tripping a circuit breaker.

[Specter]

An UPS dumps the shit to neutral / ground.  Any noise, any switching problems, you have an SCR going bad, all that noise goes to ground.  That can also hit the Line lead too if it's bad enough and not isolating properly.  Most UPS will try to filter before outright switching to their own power, and when they do, they are cheap, it's really crappy power they make.  Up until not too many years ago, they put out a crappy perverted quasi sinewave or just a modified sine / rounded square.  Some of the 'better' cough cough just tried to smooth a sawtooth, not much help.

Now, if you had a bike or something that WAS monitoring incoming voltages and capable of giving you faults when it sees shit on your power line, that garbage the UPS is putting there will absolutely set it off.  It can't tell what is causing the garbage and poor quality of the power coming in, just that there IS bad power coming in.   Harmonics are another issue, computer power supplies put out a lot of them.

I took him at his word that the bike was somehow 'seeing' bad power on his power line and was simply saying, if this is true, then a possible cause may be a bad UPS or power supply.  Switching power supplies can be noisy. 

Also, FWIW, battery chargers generally are not super pure power either, they don't have to be, so why spend all that extra $$$ making ultra pure power when it don't have to be.

Aaron

[KuRi]

What makes you think that was the cause? An isolation fault is kind of specific and wouldn't be caused by input voltages or frequencies being slightly off. I had a look to see if there was an error code specific to that and couldn't find one so you'd probably get a more generic code 38 "charger fault". I also tried to find specs of the gen 3 chargers but couldn't find much, however the gen 2 charger could handle 100-264V and 47-63Hz so assuming the gen 3 is similar if not better then your mains supply would have to be pretty damn bad.

I got readings of +80Hz.

Other 3 home electronic devices failed the same two days (dishwasher, oven and washing machine) with display errors and weird behaviours. Just after the 2 days, everything started working again.

The first error I saw on the bike was something like "unable to select battery module". Then I tried forcing the charge with the car charger and then I got the isolation error (maybe something the charger did when the net problems occurred). Too much coincidence I guess