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[Specter]

She's being diplomatic.  She knows they are cunts who robbed Energica blind and just used them to pull off their scam.
She can't say that though, or they would probably sue her for Defamation. 
The rats are sinking and grabbing for whatever floatsm they can find.  why hand them a lifeboat like public defamation to cling onto for buxx??

Energica says they will continue to supply parts as they are availble, but when you read the thing,  they can't even get enough parts to put together new bikes because they owe everyone money, and those people are not going to throw more money at them until they pay what they owe or.... whatever.     Hence the bankruptcy proceedings.

Bankruptcy is their way of trying to clean the platter, and restart fresh, to continue in a better way, with what they already have.
Given we are hearing comments like, git rid of me if you have to, just keep the company going, is a VERY STRONG indication that they mean business.  They have a plan and really want to keep this thing going.

They make comments about Italy, and it's workers unions, and difficulties,  and that in the US it'd probably take twice as many people to do what they are doing in Italy.  I propose, they are probably correct because they are working in a communist run state in the US.   Move to a better state, one that is actually friendly towards business', treat your people well, and you can do just as well in the US and not NEED double the people if you can manage to keep the Union cancer OUT of your work place!!

I really want to see them succeed but there are going to have to be some serious changes.  One of them is cutting a LOT of the expenses.  NOT living / working in a state that taxes you just for being alive basically... is a good start on that route.  Which is why pretty much every other business that wants to succeed is moving OUT of Commiefornia.

Even if Trump gets elected as president.
Even with all the promises he's making on how he's going to fix thing.
some things... just can't be fixed.  your best route is to pick up and leave them behind.

Also, their bikes ARE expensive, it's the technology, it is what it is.  If they could move just enough of the production over here to say, see it's built in the USA as well, .. enough to qualify it for the federal rebate, THAT would also help, being able to tell potential customers, plus you get 4k back from the government, would sell bikes!

just some thoughts

Aaron

[flynnstig82r]

I really hope you’re right about the nature of the bankruptcy. I do plan on buying an Experia in the next 3-5 years, and I really don’t see another manufacturer stepping up and making a vehicle in that segment to such a high standard for at least 7 years. If Energica liquidates I might pick a used one up sooner at a lower price, but I’d really prefer to save up longer for an improved model with parts and support. Give me 35 kW DC and 6 kW AC charging and I’ll be in hog heaven. For extra credit past an A+ grade, add a full-fat EMCE motor option with RS gearing, semi-active suspension, quick-adjustable windscreen (either electric or one-hand adjustable like the Triumph Tiger), and adaptive cruise control with blind-spot monitoring.

The only other way we’re getting an “Experia” is to wait until the cows come home for Zero to switch pack voltages for DCFC, or wait for Ducati to introduce an electric Multistrada. I don’t see the former happening before the e-moto and financial markets pick up again in a few years, and I don’t see the latter happening for a long time. Duc will probably start with a PanigalE and a StrEetfighter before they make a MultEstrada. When they finally do get around to it, they will be held to a very high bar if the Experia is still around and being improved upon. That would be good for the whole motorcycle industry, raising the bar for gas and electric bikes.

[jotjotde]

Flynn, I think the best time to pick up an Experia is now. I see them now offered with a 30 % discount.

I had hopes for an E-Ducati but not anymore. Audi, the owner of Ducati, is part of the Volkswagen Group which is currently restructuring. Looking at the current mood about e-mobility, they will not invest into anything related to this. So, buying Energica or getting an e-Ducati on the market, this is not going to happen anytime soon.

[flynnstig82r]

I agree it’s a good time to pick up a new Experia, but 70% of $22k is still way too rich for my blood right now. I’m house poor for the next couple years so I can maybe afford to splurge on a stick of gum. I’d rather Energica be rescued and continue development and I’ll pay full price for an upgraded model in 3-5 years. If they go under and owners figure out how to keep the bikes going with chewing gum and newspaper holding them together, maybe I’ll get one sooner at the “Fisker Ocean” discount rate, but that’s not what I’m hoping for.

My predictions for an electric Ducati are somewhere around 2030-32 for a “PanigalE” and/or “StrEetfighter” and 2033-35 for an electric Multistrada. I’d love to be proven wrong, but full Multistrada redesigns only happen every 6 years or so, and I don’t see them putting any kind of electric assist in the next one c2027-28. Can you imagine how silly Ducati would look with their usual +10 HP against a 2030 Experia RS with a solid-state pack and 2nd gen EMCE motor peaking at 200+ HP? Fingers crossed that the bankruptcy court allows that match-up to happen!

[Pard]

Buying an Energica now is a gamble on the entire purchase price of the bike.  If something goes wrong with the battery or associated electronics, you are out of options to get it fixed.

Considering how few Energica bikes are out there, there are way too many stories of bikes with issues to take the risk now, IMHO, unless you can afford to lose it all.

My first Rebelle went 90 miles before it died.  Simply stopped dead on the road.  Stefano replaced the entire bike within 2 weeks.  If that happened now I would be out of luck.

I knew the risks of early tech adoption, and went for it.  Now?  No way.  Risk to reward ratio is through the roof.

Get a Zero or a LiveWire.  They are not horrible, and they at least have service and support options.  The LiveWire one is a genuine comp to the Energica, maybe even better unless you are planning to ride track with it.

Or just get a great ICE bike.  No shortage of those. 

The state of electric hypersport bikes is on hold for now.

[coolhand]

Agreed,

I now own a very rare SS9 (I think the colors I chose have not been delivered to any other bike in Europe), at a zero to no resale value  :-)

As for the battery, there  is a tech shop here in Norway that claims they can repair or swap single cells in the battery. For the electronics, if things go bust, the bike is a brick....

[Pard]

Agreed,

I now own a very rare SS9 (I think the colors I chose have not been delivered to any other bike in Europe), at a zero to no resale value  :-)

As for the battery, there  is a tech shop here in Norway that claims they can repair or swap single cells in the battery. For the electronics, if things go bust, the bike is a brick....

Hopefully, there will be some ambitious individuals in every region who start to stockpile bikes that are being sold cheap, or sold for junk due to inoperable status and will have used, but working components to keep the machines running for some time.

[Stonewolf]

EEMC have said before they're happy to break open Energica batteries and root around in their guts and I expect that depending on what the problem is they probably still are.

[TNCreator]

are these batteries not sealed in resin like I think, zero ?

[Stonewolf]

I have no idea what's inside the box but resin sealing isn't common in EVs as far as I know.

[flynnstig82r]

I think Zero is the only one that pots their batteries. Energicas can be repacked in theory, if you can get the new pack to talk to the controller and the rest of the electronics.

[Specter]

Opening one of them up is a bit risky.
A. It's heavy as shit, hope you have a solid stand and a way to turn the thing up / down / sideways and around as you work on it.  A cherry picker setup worked for me.

The pack is 300 volts, once you got hot inside, there is NOTHING protecting ANYTHING from you making a mistake and touching something wrong.

I'll tell you right now, if you DO arc flash that thing, it WILL be catastrophic.  You'll damage at least one cell, to the point of auto self destruction, with no way to isolate it from the pack, save maybe getting a bolt cutters and cutting thru a bus that has how many hundreds of DC amps running thru it now.

At short circuit currents it will only take a few seconds tops for things to overheat, swell, vent and now it's a chain reaction as you have a sympathetic melt down.

Secondly, what exactly do you envision as being inside one of these packs?  I have taken one apart.  It isn't just a can full of battery cells.  You have bus'.  wiring out the ass, BMS boards,tie in boards, a bajillion nickle weld tabs. on and on and on.  Then there are the communications boards, CAN bus, so on and so forth.  It's a pretty complex device.

Do you really want to go gorilla footing around in it if you don't know exactly what you are doing.

I HAVE to warn you.

Opening that pack up is DEADLY.  You come across that bus hand to hand you will die.  300 volts will lock you up and the rest is an old tale of carelessness and DC voltage.

Please be careful if you want to poke there.

At the end of the day it's a 20kw pack, either rebuild it for house storage at 48 vdc nom OR just get an inverter that runs at 300 volts, they are out there and not very expensive at all.

aaron

[PWM]

I would have no hesitation to opening up one of these to document findings...insulated gloves and insulated tools is all that is really needed.

The 21.5kW variant shares the same form factor of (4) modules as the smaller 13.5kW variant...each pouch cell nests in a polyimide carrier...modules can be separated...within the modules cell tabs are bonded to bus bars likely by ultra-sonic welding but this is pure speculation based on other module designs I've seen...



Be cool to create / share video on this forum of step-by-step dissassembly / non-destructive reverse-engineering effort...raising hand for a donor pack if one can be made available.

[TNCreator]

is there some kind of archive website with all technical schematics like this one ? could be useful, even more now.

[PWM]

Energica patent is titled "Supply Unit"...CRP Group previous parent company before Idiotnomics is into additive manufacturing and a big contributor to this pack's design, e.g. pouch carriers I'm pretty sure are 3D printed using CRP proprietary technology.

https://patents.google.com/patent/US9941556B2/en