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Author Topic: Bad News  (Read 5482 times)

Fran K

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Re: Bad News
« Reply #45 on: October 18, 2024, 02:01:28 AM »



How many times did big companies,  GE, Chrysler, etc go tits up, and come out the otherside better off.

Maybe im being naieve ...........

Lets hold out hope.

Aaron

Aaron

fyi GE symbol is now GE aerospace.  They spun off Wabteck in a manner stock holders got charded it in the income department.  8 to 1 reverse split.  It kind of was broken up wasn't it?  That is lately I don't think there was a before if there was another tits up episode it was way back.  I don't think tits up is what happened unless that is what happens when you get kicked out of the dow 30.

« Last Edit: October 18, 2024, 02:06:10 AM by Fran K »
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wadejesu

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Re: Bad News
« Reply #46 on: October 18, 2024, 02:03:15 AM »

Their website is still alive <

https://www.energicamotor.com/us/
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Grauteufel

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Re: Bad News
« Reply #47 on: October 18, 2024, 02:54:52 AM »

because of ideanomics cuntfuckery

Aaron

I didn't know you knew how to speak aussie
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flynnstig82r

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Re: Bad News
« Reply #48 on: October 18, 2024, 03:57:34 AM »

Ive reached out to them about financial support but have not heard a word about anything.

I have my bike in their shop, ... waiting to hear what it will cost to fix,  and now I can't get anyone to answer any e mails about it.

Maybe the bankruptcy will allow them to wash their hands of the shit that happened,  tighten shop quite a bit, and re emerge as a smaller, leaner company that has a fresh start.. somewhat and go from there.

Supposedly they had the deals pretty much signed for a shit ton of the experia's to be marketed.  They HAD / HAVE to do something to get themselves away from ideanomics legally, so the cancer that it is, does not stay with them.   Bankruptcy is the way to do that.

liquidate the old company, sell the assets to your wifes brother in law, and open up a new company, new start, doing the same ole thing.  It's a common tactic in florida with contractors :( 

This might not be the end of the world totally yet.  This could be them just cleaning house, to GET the clean start.   See,if we can start over from fresh, we KNOW how to market the bikes, we HAVE the orders, and we HAVE steady business with the bikes that are already out there!!   BUT>>>>>>>  If we have 20 million of debt strangling us because of ideanomics cuntfuckery we'll never be able toget out from under it and BE the company we need to.

How many times did big companies,  GE, Chrysler, etc go tits up, and come out the otherside better off.

Maybe im being naieve but I want to think this is a new beginning possibly,  not a horrible end.   and YES of course I do, I got close to 100k invested in this shit already.


Why can't WE ALL who own these things,  buy stock in the new company, and bring it up as an owner / investor thing.  There are plenty of options here, they don't HAVE to have one huge investor, but have a bunch of smaller,  float a bond.     The most frustrating thing is not knowing a thing about whats going on, but if they ARE in bankruptcy trying to get out from the shit fuck, they can't talk, it's a poker game they are playing right now and they can't show their hand.

Lets hold out hope.

Aaron

Aaron
I’d love to see a group of owners get together and buy the IP from the liquidator, maybe even hire back most of the staff and keep the equipment going. I don’t know what it would take, but I’m guessing somewhere in the low tens of millions including funding development and expanding the manufacturing? I’m house-poor right now or I’d be interested in investing.
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2007 Yamaha FJR1300 AE

Past bikes:
2020 Energica SS9 13.4 kWh
2017 Zero SR 13.0 kWh
2011 Ducati Multistrada 1200 S Touring
2016 MV Agusta Turismo Veloce 800
2012 Yamaha FZ6R

Grauteufel

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Re: Bad News
« Reply #49 on: October 18, 2024, 05:49:37 AM »

This is a massive (but polite) fck you to ideanomics in the official Energica bankrupty press release

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jotjotde

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Re: Bad News
« Reply #50 on: October 18, 2024, 11:19:56 AM »

I think it's pretty clear now that Ideanomics is the culprit, taking over the majority and then leaving Energica to fend for themselves without the promised capital infusion.
In the end, I understood, Energica had a full orderbook but no cash to continue.

Indeed it appears that the Italian insolvency law is now about the same as in Germany, i.e. a court-nominated lawyer will try to keep the business running by asking creditors to forego some of their money (haircut), trying to find an investor and even asking employees for salary cuts.

The bad news of course is, that an investor had not appeared the last two years and therefore this best case scenario is highly improbable. I never thought that I would hope, a Chinese company would take over an European one  ::)

Liquidation and closure of business looks very likely. Someone will aquire the knowhow for small change without having to deal with a downbeaten company.
Between the lines I have understood that the employess have not been paid for some time, so hopefully they will get at least their owed money.

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Specter

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Re: Bad News
« Reply #51 on: October 18, 2024, 04:31:24 PM »

There's a lot of lies and media bullshit going on,  gee say i isn't so.
The company has not paid the employees but they have some sort of social security / unemployment thing that has taken over the payments, while it sucks, im sure just like US unemployment is a sorry joke, it's still a little something.

They also been throwing around  Bankruptcy/ Liquidation / way too slack as well.  What stil has NOT been made clear by anyone with the authority to say is. is  this a.    Screw you guys, im  taking my toys and going home  or....  There is no way forward with this idanomics cancer attached to s, we have to shed this skin, shed this boat anchor of a debt on our necks, and restart.  Hopefully on their OWN, with an investor of course or 10,000 investors, there are many ways, but with THEM in control of their own destiny, not some scam company that spun up like solyndra, to rape the gree new deal type bullshit going on, and then riding off into the sunset with the cash.

They really can't , at this point forward tell you what their plan is either,  A:  they probably are not sure yet either, still in shock over this and B: as I said before it's a card game, so they have  to keep their strategy a bit tight until judgement day.

I just wonder how I get my bike back from them now?  They lock the doors up or what?  Technically it's MY properrty already so Ill pay the shipping, slap a harness on it and lets go :D

Aaron
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flynnstig82r

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Re: Bad News
« Reply #52 on: October 18, 2024, 11:19:37 PM »

There’s a conversation on the Electric Motorcycles Discord about putting together an owners group similar to the Fisker owners that bought the software rights to keep support going. Energica owners are relatively deep-pocketed and passionate, and at least a few thousand strong, exactly the profile of a group that might be successful at this type of thing. I’m sure Rob at Energica of New England would love to fab some parts and accessories if there was a group buy to ensure he would recoup his costs. We could even see things like corrected speedometers and top speed unlocks if an owners group could get the necessary software protocols open-sourced, or at least if there was no one to defend the IP from being cracked open.
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2007 Yamaha FJR1300 AE

Past bikes:
2020 Energica SS9 13.4 kWh
2017 Zero SR 13.0 kWh
2011 Ducati Multistrada 1200 S Touring
2016 MV Agusta Turismo Veloce 800
2012 Yamaha FZ6R

Specter

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Re: Bad News
« Reply #53 on: October 18, 2024, 11:27:16 PM »

Well there's more to it than that.

Yes we can drool about being able to crack open the top end etc etc but what worries me is, all this shit is married to each other.
so your ECU goes out.  ok.
so you find one on an aftermarket somewhere... ok
BUT it won't work because all the other parts talk to each other and are basically married to each other so if the esn / serial number don't match they won't work with it.

im more worried about when stuff DOES go bad, and even if there are parts available, without a programmer, and the key for their proprietary canbus comm protocal,  call it a passcode, then the part does you little good.

heres another thing, they machined a LOT of the parts themselves in shop. while that's awesome and convenient, it's also more expense.  Let's take the center stand that's been so elusive.  such a simple fkn part and nobody seems to know how to get one?  YOu mean to tell me that a machine shop ANYwhere can't slap a piece of fucking plate steel to a foot, drill a bolt hole and make a kickstand???

The italians have their pride and wanted everything to be first class and perfect, which is commendable, and it shows when you look at and ride the bike, but some of the stuff, that is NOT critical,  like a kick stand or head light... etc  can be outsourced.   Hell they copied aprilla parts here,  other peoples parts there,   just get their stuff, put it on and keep YOUR stuff.

this IS doable and I can see the owners getting together to make something happen but if we do not get the software AND the programmers, it's not going to happen very easy at all.

Aaron
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flynnstig82r

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Re: Bad News
« Reply #54 on: October 18, 2024, 11:43:57 PM »

All very true. Maybe it’s a little utopian, but I envision an owners group where monthly contributions can be used to make orders of parts like center stands from people like EoNE and members can buy necessary parts at cost from the club’s inventory when something goes wrong. If a programmer, engineer, or tinkerer is needed and the members vote on it, money from the war chest or a special assessment can be made to hire someone like Chris on a 6-month contract to make it happen. If you could get 500 owners to contribute $50 per month, I think it would be workable. Even 100 owners could make some of it happen.
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2007 Yamaha FJR1300 AE

Past bikes:
2020 Energica SS9 13.4 kWh
2017 Zero SR 13.0 kWh
2011 Ducati Multistrada 1200 S Touring
2016 MV Agusta Turismo Veloce 800
2012 Yamaha FZ6R

triangletom

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Re: Bad News
« Reply #55 on: October 18, 2024, 11:49:11 PM »

How steep are we talking?

Energica USA offered me a 40% discount, and it sounds like there are likely still more Experias available in black and white. I just e-mailed Stefano at the address mentioned in the latest Rider-E newsletter.
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Specter

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Re: Bad News
« Reply #56 on: October 19, 2024, 12:14:58 AM »

which e mail would that be?  there are a few listed on that letter,  unless I missed it because I am getting a number of letters from Energica.

Thats not a bad discount.

Ilike the idea of hiring someone like chris but still,  without the software, and from what I understand even they don't have it in the US.  that's kept in Italy, so when they need to do something they have to communicate with the 'home' plant to get an unlock or software or the hardware to put it in over here or something.    so unless we get the software and setups etc AND equipment, chris may not be very much help.  Id LOVE if he could do that, but would he want to?   Also,  the logistics.  ok  where do we set him up at?  then there's shipping the bikes back and forth, and he's probably going to need help, unless you fly  him around the country where he spends a week here, a week there etc.  That's a bit more than just hey chris you wanna do this?

As much as I hate to say this, lets give it a few weeks and hopefully we hear something definitive.  We are re structuring, we are offering our intellectual rights up for sale, or they are being confiscated by our debitors...or whatever.

I know Ducatti been working on an electric bike,  this could be a boon for them,  all the hard work is done,  they have a track proven motor AND bike, they could throw their frame around it and run with it, literally if they wanted.  maybe buy thecode and tweak it a bit.  or maybe buy the rights and offer toservice energica bikes at ducatti service centers.

I  wonder how much it would cost me, to say I want the intel rights to the software, propriatery hardware, or a source for it, and a programmer.  I have a few friends who own bike shops.  If I could talk him into taking on Energica and being the one to work on their stuff??  I am sure Eone and New England would probably want to be part of it too.  fuck, id dump a couple hundred into it if it was viable, of course itd have to go thru the accountant but....  not just piss because I spent all this money on their bikes but I honestly feel there IS a market for these,  the biggest mistake I think they made is they never really markeded them in the US.  I never seen commercials or anything and in fact stumbled on them kind of by accident TBH.  I have some ties here,  I could get contacts with a solar company, an electric company, the local news, city hall,  we could possibly bring a home for them.

If we don't get into an all out nuclear war here in the next few months, I think this could be an entire new beginning for them, A fresh start that is the RIGHT start without being bought up by a shitbag who just needed an   e / green   name to bundle his scam together.

Aaron
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Specter

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Re: Bad News
« Reply #57 on: October 19, 2024, 09:50:57 AM »

Maybe lightning can buy them out, that way he can actually have a bike that runs, has hit the public market and people are, quote, not afraid to ride because it's too fast  ::)

Seriously though, when things DO start to go up for sale,  Where does that happen,  when, how etc.  If we want to try to save this thing, or at least purchase the rights to the software and maybe the patent or something, mainly the software and a source for equipment,  mainly the software and keys.  where do we even begin to look for when the sale sign goes up?

IF we are going to do this, we need to be ready so when it does go up, we can hopefully get in there and get it before it gets killed.

Ducatti  BMW etc may not be interested in any of it, because it's not 'theirs'  the ego/snobbery thing BUT I could see them sure as shit snatch it up so they can kill it, never to show it's face again, so they don't have to worry about it being competition again in the future.

Maybe we should start a thread or something, a discord or something to get people together and see if we can get enough SERIOUS people together and come up with a plan so when it does come up,  can we get it, who holds it, who handles the money, who owns it, bla bla.    I can reah out to new england energica / AF1 racing and see if they have any plans or their thoughts on this.   at least try to get some sort of ball rolling.

With luck, this is just the legal way of shedding Ideanomics and removing that cancerous wart from them, getting out from under the debt it racked up, and then coming back in fresh, and basically resuming where they left off, only with a clean slate this time and not trying to float in 20 mil of debt.

Id like to know where all this debt came from?  They got their books full of orders, but no money to make the bikes.  well shit, we could give them the money to put together say 50 bikes,  sell them to these people, then turn right around pay the workers, buy the parts and flip another 55 and slowly get them back on their feet and self solvent again.   Where did the money that WAS coming in from sales go to?  did it go to the parent and never trickle down to the company to do this or what?

There will need to be some serious trimming of expenses possibly, or at least an honest adult or three in charge but the know how is there, the product is SOLID and PROVEN.

A  full blown machine shop they have is expensive,  the machinery alone can be 20 million dollars of assets.  Maybe they sell off the machinery part, the lathes,  the CNC,s   stuff like that, that pays the debts, and then rent / lease machinery OR just sub out the jobs to other machine shops.  The quality does not need to suffer, but it might save money in the short run since there is no 'designing' to be done, you already have the program,  plug it in throw a billet in and let the machine do its thing.      what im getting at is, they don't NEED to re invest in learning how to make this wheel again, or getting customers or learn how to ship, this that and all the other crap a NEW company would have to learn first time in.  They already know this.   This makes it very possible to get them back on their feet with experience already and a lot smaller of a budget.   example  CUT the r and d for a few years if need be, focus on making what you have, which is the ONLY real bike for the time being, focus on filling the orders for the experia, and for god sake focus on taking care of the customers you already have, because THOSE are the people who will keep you alive thru example and word of mouth to others.

I mean just the fact that they'd come out of a prett hard bankruptcy and then turn around and say one of our first priorities is taking care of out existing customers, would add a TON of street cred to them, and could potentially drive a lot of sales there way, especially with the proper marketing, which I can say for a FACT is something they NEVER EVER had in the USA.  That had to hurt a TON right there!

Why can't they see that we are here for them we are willing and ready to help.  But again, they have to clear this misfire in the breech before they can load up and take another shot, and that can be tricky.

More people need to be in prison for this shit, or better yet, give them cement  boots.  C'mon you are Itailian,  go whack the fuckers who did this to you !!!

Aaron
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PWM

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Re: Bad News
« Reply #58 on: October 19, 2024, 12:51:29 PM »

Fiirst off, sure hope Energica will rekindle in some way to sustain what they started, but timing is everything...for spares consideration.

Would love to get my hands on a bum 21.5kW battery module from the US service center and reverse engineer it to understand it before my bike needs attention.

The donor module can be fully operational or faulty in some way...doesn't matter.

How doe one participate in the asset liquidation by Energica USA?
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princec

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Re: Bad News
« Reply #59 on: October 19, 2024, 06:16:17 PM »

Musings ... wonder why Zero doesn't buy them out. Would save them having to develop all the liquid cooled high voltage tech and give them an instant 3 more models in the lineup.

Cas :)
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