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Author Topic: Bad News  (Read 5486 times)

PWM

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Re: Bad News
« Reply #120 on: November 07, 2024, 03:21:58 AM »

The VCU, BMS, Charger and Traction Drive all communicate CAN bus.

Why not start here...

https://www.csselectronics.com/pages/can-bus-sniffer-reverse-engineering
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Specter

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Re: Bad News
« Reply #121 on: November 07, 2024, 03:27:16 AM »

The specific algo is proprietary.   Your computer talks via protocols, and general ethernet protocol... but it's all encrypted for privacy and protection right?  Just because i have a network card does not mean I can read your communications, unless I work for the CIA or something.

Aaron
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T.S. Zarathustra

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Re: Bad News
« Reply #122 on: November 07, 2024, 01:58:27 PM »

So, when something is behind an encryption you can just read it like that correct?
Without the codes to be able to get past passwords, I don't think you'll be too successful.
Just because you may be able to read software, do you know fully how it works?  What it does, what it needs to run, stuff like that.
If it was that easy to just hack into something and make one yourself, then it'd have been done many times over, over many years, with many different items.

Like hell I am going to pay apple 1200 for a shitty phone, I have a friend with a RS 232 port who says he can reverse engineer the code in it, ill make my own for a few hundred dollars !!  ::)  afterall, they are made in china so the parts are easy to get because of that now right?

Aaron

Why do you say it's encrypted?
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T.S. Zarathustra

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Re: Bad News
« Reply #123 on: November 07, 2024, 02:53:22 PM »

The specific algo is proprietary.   Your computer talks via protocols, and general ethernet protocol... but it's all encrypted for privacy and protection right?  Just because i have a network card does not mean I can read your communications, unless I work for the CIA or something.

Aaron
Encryption security holes are so big you wouldn't believe it.
Wi-Fi for example. Anyone who can see your Wi-Fi router broadcast can read all your data streams. When the router first establishes encryption with your PC, your PC sends the router password unencrypted in the broadcasted data stream. It cannot send the password encrypted because it has not established encryption. The router re-establishes encryption roughly every two days. Sometimes more often. If you have physical access you press the reset button to re-establish encryption and get the password right away. With simple data sniffer and analyzing software you can get access to any of your neighbors Wi-Fi in short time.
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Grauteufel

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Re: Bad News
« Reply #124 on: November 07, 2024, 04:28:34 PM »

The software/firmware is encrypted/uses proprietary code, but my understanding is they have release the software to the principal dealers to continue support customers without Energica involvement

Edited the with to without
« Last Edit: November 07, 2024, 05:52:44 PM by Grauteufel »
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T.S. Zarathustra

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Re: Bad News
« Reply #125 on: November 07, 2024, 05:20:10 PM »

The software/firmware is encrypted/uses proprietary code, but my understanding is they have release the software to the principal dealers to continue support customers with Energica involvement
Do you mean the dealers have software that uses login to access the firmware in the bike?
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Grauteufel

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Re: Bad News
« Reply #126 on: November 07, 2024, 05:51:56 PM »

That is what I have heard. Where previously energica Italy had to remote in to a pc to inspect the bike, now the dealers can do so directly.
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T.S. Zarathustra

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Re: Bad News
« Reply #127 on: November 07, 2024, 06:04:39 PM »

That would be access control, not encryption.
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Stonewolf

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Re: Bad News
« Reply #128 on: November 07, 2024, 08:17:17 PM »

I don't know anything about canbus BUT it makes no sense for it to be encrypted unless you're trying to do proprietary unlock keys and stuff. Most of the system should be unencrypted because it's all wired directly around the bike so the risk level is extremely low (access to hardware is basicly game over securitywise) and the overhead of encryption isn't needed. For external wireless connections you are right that encryption is entirely appropriate and desired but for wired connections between components on the bike it's just unnecessary.
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PWM

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Re: Bad News
« Reply #129 on: November 07, 2024, 11:14:28 PM »

I don't know anything about canbus BUT it makes no sense for it to be encrypted unless you're trying to do proprietary unlock keys and stuff. Most of the system should be unencrypted because it's all wired directly around the bike so the risk level is extremely low (access to hardware is basicly game over securitywise) and the overhead of encryption isn't needed. For external wireless connections you are right that encryption is entirely appropriate and desired but for wired connections between components on the bike it's just unnecessary.

Correctly stated. 

CAN Bus protocols are standardized but it's the messaging permissions that gain you entry, a safeguard but not encryption.

If Energica dealers have means to upload, save and reflash firmware then this is great news...can this be confirmed?
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flip69

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Re: Bad News
« Reply #130 on: November 08, 2024, 06:24:01 AM »

A new owners association has been set up. Just in case you didn’t know about it. I hope you find this attached file press release helpful. Energica Owners Unite to Form the Energica Owners Association Amid Corporate Receivership
« Last Edit: November 10, 2024, 05:36:28 PM by flip69 »
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Specter

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Re: Bad News
« Reply #131 on: November 08, 2024, 09:32:46 AM »

be careful opening pdf's from sources you do not know

aaron
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flip69

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Re: Bad News
« Reply #132 on: November 08, 2024, 07:03:23 PM »

Thank you for encouraging caution on the Internet hopefully that all members here at Internet savvy. PDF files are not normally a problem though.  I will copy and paste the text below so that you can see what is contained and that it is genuine. The formatting has been removed but as you can see it's a good idea. I hope you find it helpful. Philip :o)

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
Energica Owners Unite to Form the Energica Owners Association Amid Corporate
Receivership

October 28, 2024 – In response to the recent announcement that Energica Motor Corporation is
entering receivership, Energica motorcycle owners around the world have come together to form
the Energica Owners Association (EOA). This new group is focused on representing the interests
of current and future Energica owners as the company’s assets face potential sale under an Italian
court’s direction.

The EOA’s mission is simple: To connect and empower Energica Owners worldwide, building a
community that helps owners navigate present-day challenges and advocates for the long-
term performance, reliability, and operability of our motorcycles.
As Energica owners, we are committed to preserving the legacy of our motorcycles and ensuring we
can continue to maintain, operate, and enjoy these revolutionary vehicles for years to come.

Key Advocacy Areas:

* Access to Parts: Maintain fair market access to parts for ongoing maintenance and repairs.
* Software Availability: Gain and keep access to critical diagnostic software, software
updates, and resources needed for ongoing upkeep and performance.
* Technical Knowledge: Gain and keep access to critical technical and service knowledge
and documentation required for ongoing maintenance.
* Technical Stability: Ensure availability to updates and patches to prevent system failures,
support changing charging standards, and prevent battery & performance degradation.
If Energica’s ongoing support cannot continue, the EOA will pursue non-commercial rights to all
technical knowledge and software (including source code) necessary to maintain and support
these motorcycles independently.
The EOA will work to support any sale of Energica’s assets that:
* Preserves access to parts, software, and documentation.
* Provides for service platforms needed for diagnostics and repairs.
* Protects the ability of owners to maintain and update their motorcycles independently.
The Energica Owners Association is committed to building strong, collaborative relationships with
Energica stakeholders and future asset holders. Our community believes these motorcycles
represent more than just a product; they symbolize innovation, freedom, and the promise of
sustainable electric mobility.
The Energica Owners Association is online at Energica Owners Association | Facebook

« Last Edit: November 08, 2024, 07:05:06 PM by flip69 »
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Beauceron

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Re: Bad News
« Reply #133 on: November 08, 2024, 07:10:36 PM »

Thanks a lot.

Is there a possibility to join for those being not in facebook ;)
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Specter

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Re: Bad News
« Reply #134 on: November 08, 2024, 07:24:49 PM »

Flip, thank you for being decent.
yes you CAN imbed shit into a pdf that an unsuspecting person can click and get grief from.
Macro's  and VBS scripts can be a real issue.  Typically most people you would hope were intelligent enough  to not fall for that stuff but well.. if there weren't stupid people out there, there wouldn't be scammers now would there.

As far as that group goes, it sounds like a great idea but if the company goes tits up.  No more parts, no more support, no more upgrades, no more software etc.  best one can hope for is to get the original code somehow so that between all of use, we can figure out how to keep our bikes running when they shit themselves, and we put what parts are left in them, and have to 're marry' everything.

Again, the Italian part of the company may dissolve, but from what I am lead to believe, the US part is still alive and well and wishes to keep going .... but has to wait for all the bullshit to play through the courts before they can actually really DO anything significant.  This is what my insurance adjuster told me when he called me to discuss my bike and my 'situation'.   so keeping fingers crossed all ends up well and we won't need to worry about all this.  but still.  it's be really good to have a group for support either way.

Aaron
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