Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Richard230]

Can't wait to hear what it is.

My money's on a "bold new colour scheme" - same as most years. 

The way things are going right now in the economy and the high-end electric motorcycle market, maybe that is all that they can afford to do. 

[TheRan]

Well they're saying they're raising the bar even higher than last year. I didn't get the email to check exactly what they announced last year but the big things I remember were the gen 3 DS and DSR as well as the S, scrapping the gen 2 models. So this year there has to be a new model or two, or some pretty significant changes. I'm wondering if the FX and FXE will finally get an overhaul using the newer battery cells and perhaps an improved motor, and maybe even better charging. I wouldn't put any money on them moving to DC charging however they're seriously falling behind compared to all the other upper tier brands.

[mdjak1]

CCS? NACS?

Unless they go DCFC, is NACS really necessary at this point?   You can't use Tesla Superchargers unless you have DCFC.  You can use Tesla destination chargers with an adapter.   And if they go NACS without going DCFC then in the USA you would need to carry an adapter if you wanted to use any of the thousands of J1772 level 2 plugs out in the wild.   

Can't wait to hear what it is.

My money's on a "bold new colour scheme" - same as most years. 

Obviously it has to be much more than that.

Can't wait to hear what it is.

My money's on a "bold new colour scheme" - same as most years. 

The way things are going right now in the economy and the high-end electric motorcycle market, maybe that is all that they can afford to do. 

People complain about Zero being high end but just yesterday I was looking at a US dealer website that still showed Energica and realized that the least expensive Energica had an MSRP of about $23,000.   That is the US MSRP of the most expensive Zero.   

Well they're saying they're raising the bar even higher than last year. I didn't get the email to check exactly what they announced last year but the big things I remember were the gen 3 DS and DSR as well as the S, scrapping the gen 2 models. So this year there has to be a new model or two, or some pretty significant changes. I'm wondering if the FX and FXE will finally get an overhaul using the newer battery cells and perhaps an improved motor, and maybe even better charging. I wouldn't put any money on them moving to DC charging however they're seriously falling behind compared to all the other upper tier brands.

Perhaps a lower end model built in Asia.  It certainly would be welcome in the market.   

[TheRan]

I highly doubt that, the whole "made in the USA" is a big thing for them. And they couldn't really go much more low end while saving enough money and still be able to sell it. The biggest way to save money is cutting battery capacity and people already complain about range and they got rid of the 3.6kW/h modular models and 7.2kW/h S and DS. While everyone likes to complain about the price of electric bikes they also want more from companies, not less. More power, more range, faster charging. That leaves the low end relegated to the newcomers like Super Soco, Surron, Maeving and RGNT, VMOTO, etc.

[mdjak1]

I highly doubt that, the whole "made in the USA" is a big thing for them. And they couldn't really go much more low end while saving enough money and still be able to sell it. The biggest way to save money is cutting battery capacity and people already complain about range and they got rid of the 3.6kW/h modular models and 7.2kW/h S and DS. While everyone likes to complain about the price of electric bikes they also want more from companies, not less. More power, more range, faster charging. That leaves the low end relegated to the newcomers like Super Soco, Surron, Maeving and RGNT, VMOTO, etc.

If Ryvid can sell a "California built" street legal motorcycle for $6k MSRP and CSC can sell the R1XE for $8500 (now discounted to $7000 but out of stock), then Zero should be able to have something made in Asia for around $7000 to $8000. 

[TheRan]

They probably could, I'm just saying it doesn't seem like something they'd do. I can't imagine them bringing out a new bike and it's their first one in over a decade not to have an American flag and "Made in California" written on it, and even less range than an FXE. It would be like if Harley came out with a Chinese made 300cc single cylinder, they could and it would be competitive with the like of the MT-03 and Duke 390 but it's not what they do and no one would buy it, because it's not what you go to Harley for.

[Richard230]

They probably could, I'm just saying it doesn't seem like something they'd do. I can't imagine them bringing out a new bike and it's their first one in over a decade not to have an American flag and "Made in California" written on it, and even less range than an FXE. It would be like if Harley came out with a Chinese made 300cc single cylinder, they could and it would be competitive with the like of the MT-03 and Duke 390 but it's not what they do and no one would buy it, because it's not what you go to Harley for.

Or if H-D came out with Indian-manufactured 500cc and 750cc V-twins and tried to sell them in the U.S.  Which they did do. And where are those bikes now?    Now that Energica is apparently out of the expensive performance market, my guess is that Zero will double-down on that segment and keep building whatever makes the more profit for them. As always, the higher the price, the more profit per unit, which is what you need to stay in business when sales are relatively minimal.

[flynnstig82r]

It’s a little early for another Farasis cell density bump, but if they upped the top bikes to ~19 kWh nominal and a new 4+ kWh power tank*, they could advertise similar range to the Experia. If they could include a Tesla Destination Charger jack and bump the premium charge rate to 9 kW or so, then you could have excellent range and decent charging speed without a charge tank. The charger would have to throttle itself to 6.6 kW when connected to a J-plug in the US to avoid tripping breakers, though.

I don’t expect them to announce any such things for a while, mind you, it would just be nice if that’s the kind of thing they had in mind.

*They would have to solve the issue of increased cell height that MVetter pointed out somewhere on this forum.

[DonTom]

It’s a little early for another Farasis cell density bump, but if they upped the top bikes to ~19 kWh nominal and a new 4+ kWh power tank*, they could advertise similar range to the Experia. If they could include a Tesla Destination Charger jack and bump the premium charge rate to 9 kW or so, then you could have excellent range and decent charging speed without a charge tank. The charger would have to throttle itself to 6.6 kW when connected to a J-plug in the US to avoid tripping breakers, though.

I don’t expect them to announce any such things for a while, mind you, it would just be nice if that’s the kind of thing they had in mind.

*They would have to solve the issue of increased cell height that MVetter pointed out somewhere on this forum.

So far, I have found AC input charging to be more useful than DCFC. I ride my Zero DSR/x more than my Experia because of that. But it depends on where am going.  IMO, better charging is more important than range.  Reduce the range but give me 20 KW DCFC and 12 KW AC charging in the same bike and that will be the perfect electric motorcycle for me.


-Don- Cinder Hills, Coconino Forest, AZ (RV trip with my Zero DS--and can charge here, just a few miles away)

[hotsauce]

I highly doubt that, the whole "made in the USA" is a big thing for them.

They're made in the Philippines now though aren't they?

[flynnstig82r]

So far, I have found AC input charging to be more useful than DCFC. I ride my Zero DSR/x more than my Experia because of that. But it depends on where am going.  IMO, better charging is more important than range.  Reduce the range but give me 20 KW DCFC and 12 KW AC charging in the same bike and that will be the perfect electric motorcycle for me.


-Don- Cinder Hills, Coconino Forest, AZ (RV trip with my Zero DS--and can charge here, just a few miles away)

I wish we could combine the benefits of L2 AC and DCFC. When I gave up my SS9, I was often frustrated by DC charge stations that were on the fritz with the remaining ones occupied or that wouldn’t talk to my bike. When I had my Zero, Chargepoint AC stations were always very reliable and often very cheap or free, but the thing that AC lacks is a handshake to tell a vehicle not to exceed a given number of amps, so it’s hard to get a high charge rate and not trip the breaker. I could never consistently maintain the advertised charge rate on either one, especially DC on my Energica.

I think there does come a point when you have so much range you don’t need fast charging because you want to take a nice long lunch break and give your body a rest. Anything over 200 miles and I would appreciate being forced to stop for a good long while. I fuel up and keep riding on my FJR because I just want to get there, but it would actually be nice if I didn’t have that option.

Out of curiosity, what kind of range have you been getting with that DSR/X? I know the early guesstimates were somewhere around 85 miles highway with the 17.3 pack, but I also know that Zero’s can significantly exceed their typical mileage if ridden carefully.

[mdjak1]

I highly doubt that, the whole "made in the USA" is a big thing for them.

They're made in the Philippines now though aren't they?

The FX series are still made in Scotts Valley, CA at the headquarters.   You can tell by the VIN of new ones posted for sale on Cycle Trader.   If the VIN starts with 538 then it is a US built bike.   If the VIN starts with PAG, then it is built in the Philippines by IMI.   Virtually every major motorcycle manufacturer has bikes built somewhere in Asia these days.   Even all the Japanese companies don't just build their bikes in Japan anymore.

[DonTom]

I wish we could combine the benefits of L2 AC and DCFC. When I gave up my SS9, I was often frustrated by DC charge stations that were on the fritz with the remaining ones occupied or that wouldn’t talk to my bike. When I had my Zero, Chargepoint AC stations were always very reliable and often very cheap or free, but the thing that AC lacks is a handshake to tell a vehicle not to exceed a given number of amps, so it’s hard to get a high charge rate and not trip the breaker. I could never consistently maintain the advertised charge rate on either one, especially DC on my Energica.

I think there does come a point when you have so much range you don’t need fast charging because you want to take a nice long lunch break and give your body a rest. Anything over 200 miles and I would appreciate being forced to stop for a good long while. I fuel up and keep riding on my FJR because I just want to get there, but it would actually be nice if I didn’t have that option.

Out of curiosity, what kind of range have you been getting with that DSR/X? I know the early guesstimates were somewhere around 85 miles highway with the 17.3 pack, but I also know that Zero’s can significantly exceed their typical mileage if ridden carefully.

There is a "handshake" on J-1772. It's called the pilot signal. Also is on Tesla Destination (AC) charge stations. What the pilot signal does (originates in the AC charge station) is to tell the vehicle's EV charger to lower its power to whatever the charge station can handle. So I do not understand why you would ever have such an issue on a stock bike. Me, OTOH, when I charge using external chargers on my 2017 Zeros, it ignores the pilot signal so I adjust my power manually. I find I can usually go just a little above the rated capacity of the machine before there is an issue.


On any of my bikes, I average 7.0 miles per useable KWH of the battery, I think the Experia does a little better than this, I assume better aerodynamics.


On the Zero DSR/X, I average 1 mile per SOC%. Mixed riding, but mostly freeway. So if I charge to 110%, I get 110 miles of range. Perahaps 160 miles on the Experia.  Both have enough range, IMO.


-Don-  Flagstaff, AZ

[flynnstig82r]

Thanks Don!

I stand corrected on the pilot signal. My ‘17 SR with the 3.3 kW ElCon external charger could trip breakers if I wasn’t careful. Good to know that is not a concern for factory chargers.

[DonTom]

Thanks Don!

I stand corrected on the pilot signal. My ‘17 SR with the 3.3 kW ElCon external charger could trip breakers if I wasn’t careful. Good to know that is not a concern for factory chargers.

I have a way to use my Elcons only, remove the key and not use the OBC. That means I can always subtract 1.4 KW from my charging total. If you're interested in doing the same, read the thread starting with my message here.



-Don- (in the forest north of Flagstaff, AZ)