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[MVetter]

Because the new 14.4s are powered by 56 Farasis P73 cells in a 28S2P instead of the old design of 112 Farasis P32 cells in a 28S4P configuration. The more you cap a battery's use closer to its nominal voltage value, the easier it becomes on the cells. If the old P32 packs used uncapped values it would be a 128Ah pack, but it's capped at 114Ah. If the new pack with P73 cells was uncapped it would be a 146Ah pack. I do not know what they capped it at, but I think it's safe to presume it's closer to 130Ah.

The point being that it's annoying to have the physically identical 17.3 pack capped to 14.4, but it should give better performance and the pack should last longer. You have a balancing act of attempting to keep the pack healthy versus delivering value in a product aka riding range.

edit- what you really have to remember is the elephant in the room: Zero saddled themselves with a 5 year unlimited miles battery warranty. Because of this, the engineers are responsible to do everything they can to design a pack that both gets every bit of power they can safely get out of it and build it to last at least 5 years. That's the balancing act. If these were meant to be track-only race bikes, screw it. Hammer the pack. Charge up the cells to 4.3vdc and burn the entire thing out every year.

[hotsauce]

Are we sure about that? The 2022 model year and newer power tank is a completely different item than prior years. I would have thought that was because they use the new chemistry.

100% sure. The Farasis P73 cell, which is what they use in the current Monolith, is 542mm tall. Or ~21.3" in Freedom Units. That's the cell itself with no enclosures, wiring, or other components.

The Power Tank is 9.5" x 7.5" x 9.75" (HxWxL)

The Power Tank uses the previous gen cells, P32, that are 231mm or 9.09" tall.

Apparently the Power Tank has its own BMS. Doesn't that eliminate the issue?

[MVetter]

It's a good thing that it has its own BMS and it certainly helps it be simply A Very Bad Idea instead of Fire Definitely Shooting Into Your Crotch.

But no it does not eliminate the issue.

[T.S. Zarathustra]

Are we sure about that? The 2022 model year and newer power tank is a completely different item than prior years. I would have thought that was because they use the new chemistry.

100% sure. The Farasis P73 cell, which is what they use in the current Monolith, is 542mm tall. Or ~21.3" in Freedom Units. That's the cell itself with no enclosures, wiring, or other components.

The Power Tank is 9.5" x 7.5" x 9.75" (HxWxL)

The Power Tank uses the previous gen cells, P32, that are 231mm or 9.09" tall.

Apparently the Power Tank has its own BMS. Doesn't that eliminate the issue?

It's also in parallel with the main battery. I won't say the issue is 100% eliminated, as a general rule it is bad to mix different cells, but IMHO it's pretty safe.

[MVetter]

I would not argue the word "safe". The safety measures implemented on these bikes and batteries are great. I would argue that it is a bad idea that will likely cause constant headaches and owner frustration and very likely a desire they'd never purchased the Power Tank accessory.

Or, to put it another way, I don't worry about the safety precautions. I worry that the safety precautions will work like they're supposed to and make the bike unrideable.

[Richard230]

I would not argue the word "safe". The safety measures implemented on these bikes and batteries are great. I would argue that it is a bad idea that will likely cause constant headaches and owner frustration and very likely a desire they'd never purchased the Power Tank accessory.

Or, to put it another way, I don't worry about the safety precautions. I worry that the safety precautions will work like they're supposed to and make the bike unrideable.

I have been happy enough with the two PT Zeros that I have owned, a 2014 and 2018 model. It is a heavy sucker, placed in a poor location for the best handling, but they haven't caused me any problems. However, if I had to do it again I wouldn't buy the PT. Now that I am getting older, it makes the bike tough to push around my garage. Dropping 50 pounds from that high location would make the bike much less top-heavy, handle and steer better, plus not buying it does save a lot of bucks.  However, at the time I was fascinated by Zero's claimed 455K battery pack life.

[DonTom]

I have been happy enough with the two PT Zeros that I have owned, a 2014 and 2018 model. It is a heavy sucker, placed in a poor location for the best handling, but they haven't caused me any problems. However, if I had to do it again I wouldn't buy the PT. Now that I am getting older, it makes the bike tough to push around my garage. Dropping 50 pounds from that high location would make the bike much less top-heavy handle and steer better, plus not buying it does save a lot of bucks.  However, at the time I was fascinated by Zero's claimed 455K battery pack life.

Only get the power tank if you need it for the extra range or you're better off without it. My 2017 Zero SR has the power tank and it was handy back in 2017. Today, there are countless more J-plugs in the areas I ride to (I charge it at 8 KW with external chargers) especially new free-to-use ones between here and Auburn, CA (Verdi, Truckee Airport, Truckee Town Hall, Colfax, NV City). These new free-to-use J-plugs make the range less important than it was seven years ago.


And if the bike falls over good luck trying to get it back up. I recently installed the crash bars on mine which should make it a little easier by not falling so flat to the ground.


  See here.


-Don-  Reno, NV

[MVetter]

I have been happy enough with the two PT Zeros that I have owned, a 2014 and 2018 model. It is a heavy sucker, placed in a poor location for the best handling, but they haven't caused me any problems. However, if I had to do it again I wouldn't buy the PT. Now that I am getting older, it makes the bike tough to push around my garage. Dropping 50 pounds from that high location would make the bike much less top-heavy, handle and steer better, plus not buying it does save a lot of bucks.  However, at the time I was fascinated by Zero's claimed 455K battery pack life.

I cannot stress enough how irrelevant this sort of comment is. I am talking about a very specific scenario here. I understand you have a desire to help, but unless you have a new BCB monolith full of Farasis P73 cells mated with a Power Tank full of Farasis P32 cells you're not helping.

[Richard230]

I have been happy enough with the two PT Zeros that I have owned, a 2014 and 2018 model. It is a heavy sucker, placed in a poor location for the best handling, but they haven't caused me any problems. However, if I had to do it again I wouldn't buy the PT. Now that I am getting older, it makes the bike tough to push around my garage. Dropping 50 pounds from that high location would make the bike much less top-heavy, handle and steer better, plus not buying it does save a lot of bucks.  However, at the time I was fascinated by Zero's claimed 455K battery pack life.

I cannot stress enough how irrelevant this sort of comment is. I am talking about a very specific scenario here. I understand you have a desire to help, but unless you have a new BCB monolith full of Farasis P73 cells mated with a Power Tank full of Farasis P32 cells you're not helping.

I thought we were discussing power tanks in general. I guess I just don't know much about the Gen 3 models and their power tanks. However, I do know that the power tank in my 2018 Zero also used different cells from the main pack and didn't cause any obvious issues. I am sorry that I didn't understand the specifics of the question. But it is true that the weight of the power tank and its relatively high location does have a negative impact on handling and the general feel of the motorcycle, which is something worth considering.

[princec]

I'm guessing from the OP that this topic would be about whether to buy a new one.
Personally I'm suspicious of the extra battery, and not at all keen on the extra weight which seems disproportionately high relative to the extra range. And anecdotally mostly all I hear about are problems with the things.
Extra charging capacity ftw.

Cas

[hotsauce]

I have been happy enough with the two PT Zeros that I have owned, a 2014 and 2018 model. It is a heavy sucker, placed in a poor location for the best handling, but they haven't caused me any problems. However, if I had to do it again I wouldn't buy the PT. Now that I am getting older, it makes the bike tough to push around my garage. Dropping 50 pounds from that high location would make the bike much less top-heavy, handle and steer better, plus not buying it does save a lot of bucks.  However, at the time I was fascinated by Zero's claimed 455K battery pack life.

I cannot stress enough how irrelevant this sort of comment is. I am talking about a very specific scenario here. I understand you have a desire to help, but unless you have a new BCB monolith full of Farasis P73 cells mated with a Power Tank full of Farasis P32 cells you're not helping.

Actually it's a pretty direct and helpful answer to the original question asked.

[hotsauce]

I thought we were discussing power tanks in general. I guess I just don't know much about the Gen 3 models and their power tanks. However, I do know that the power tank in my 2018 Zero also used different cells from the main pack and didn't cause any obvious issues. I am sorry that I didn't understand the specifics of the question. But it is true that the weight of the power tank and its relatively high location does have a negative impact on handling and the general feel of the motorcycle, which is something worth considering.

As the person who actually asked the question, you have the right of it. I'm finding your answer far more useful than that of MVetter, who seems to be hyperfixated on a detail that seems less important the more I learn about it

[MVetter]

You clearly know better, then. I will not stand in your way.

[Specter]

Ummmm Hmmmm

[SwampNut]

Ladies, it’s not polite to swing your purses around like that.

I got a lot of negative feedback when I investigated this, from people who had issues with it. And everyone hated the weight. I am considering the double charger input option because around here there are usually two cables near every spot.

from r/ZeroMotorcycles