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[Xenoilphobe]

Any idea how to get a Modular Battery Pack out of the frame once the battery pack has seared off the screws due to rapid expansion?

Opened a file with https://www.cpsc.gov, they want to come out and take a look at it.

[jnef]

While I don't know how to get it out, hopefully my experience makes you not feel alone with this problem.

I had one that started giving me that weird feeling (it wasn't charging fully), and so I pulled it out.  It burst out of the case less shortly thereafter -- bits of the case made it all over the garage.  A 'fan' of swollen batteries and the metal parts of the case and bus bars twisted up.  Sparks from the bus bars if anything made it wiggle -- the sparks from before the fuse.  I was super lucky that I had removed it from the bike before it did that, or it would have been really bad.  Mine was in use as a power tank, so there were lots of pointy things in the tank area that could have punctured the cells and less structure that could have kept it together.  The pouches on mine were at a scary high pressure -- the most extreme spicy pillow, I am very surprised that I didn't have a fire.  The dealer didn't want to deal with it; had me call Zero; Zero made the dealer help.  They had me drive it to them despite my objections, and when I got there, they realized why I had been resistant...  I had to bend the bus bars away from the case and shove in some material to make it safe enough to move it to them.

[victor6.7y]

Any idea how to get a Modular Battery Pack out of the frame once the battery pack has seared off the screws due to rapid expansion?

Opened a file with https://www.cpsc.gov, they want to come out and take a look at it.

Are you safe and un injured?

[Specter]

You were one or two steps away from a full on sympathetic meltdown, the only thing that might have saved you is you had it pulled out so some of the heat could dissipate.  Those cells are most likely swollen with Hydrogen Gas from the chemical reaction, along with god only knows what else.

what usually happens is one or two go, they ignite, and the hot gas acts like a blow torch cutting it's way thru whatever else in it's path, normally the other battery cells, and in the process, creating short circuits all over that battery plate, which they all are connected to, so the rest have somewhere to dump their current into, and swell, and eventually burst on their own, OR get dragged in by the fireball that is engulfing the case.  The heat of the fire and the heat generated by them being short circuiting and their chemistry going to 10000 percent just dumping every amp they could ever possibly make, into the fire and melted bus is what makes them so bad, and difficult to put out.

Yes driving with that is extremely dangerous, they still had plenty of power left in them, to be shorted, and pop and fire all over again. All it would have taken is for you to hit something and any bit of whatever touch opposing bus'.

I recycle these, and yes I get many in similar condition from the RC community.  My first step is to generally drain the power.  If I can safely do it, I have a whiz gizmo I can suck them dry safely and put the power into my electric grid. Then disassemble and get what i want from them.

 If I can not do them safely, Ill just puncture the cells to guarantee they are compromised and shorted, throw them into a bucket of slightly salted water and let them burn out.  (I used to just shoot them, again, fun, entertaining, but the smoke is nasty and didn't want to let the neighbors have to put up with it, so water it was to keep that 'mess' contained.)

 It's rather fun watching them progress,  the cells will bloat,.  fffffftttt,  POP   Poof.. SSSSSSSsssss then the next one, the same thing down the line until they all have ignited and burned off.  Yes there are better ways to neutralize them, but I was going for cheap. anyways

Please be careful with this and also remember, it might be at or near it's original voltage of what 100 volts or so?  that by itself can easily start a fire or kill you if you come across it wrong.

Be careful
Aarom

[TheRan]

The fact they made you drive with that is unbelievable, truly terrifying. Did you send them photos of it after they asked you to? If someone saw that and still insisted I transport it I wouldn't trust them at all to work on my bike. I'm sure they're much more careful when it comes to their own safety, I would imagine their procedure for moving something like that (if they'd even do it themselves and not get another company to) would be something like a very thick steel box filled with something like sand.


Xenoilphobe, the battery has expanded horizontally right? As in it's trying to push itself out of the side of the bike. I've not seen an FX up close to be sure but looking at photos of the frame it looks like the bracket that goes on top of the battery, the bit that keeps it constrained side to side, is a separate piece. For it to be removable would make sense because I don't see how else the battery would come out and I'm guessing it's a different piece for the modular models. I don't know if that's the part you're having trouble removing, with the damaged screws, but if so I'd just bend it up out of the way and then you could buy a replacement.

[jnef]

I didn't mean to hijack the thread from Xenoil...  Zero and the dealer didn't want to pick it up from me.  They then were thinking I was overreacting when I refused to bring it inside the indoor service area.  I left it outside away from everything and made sure they came out to take possession there.  I have had my fair share of failures of smaller batteries of various chemistry, and had a few large PbA batteries fail, so I have a bit of respect of the danger, but the experts clearly thought this was no big deal.

Xenoil -- don't let them (dealer/zero/etc) talk you into anything unsafe, I think the opinion is unanimous that you should be careful now that the case is busted.  I suspect that if you do manage to get it out of the bike, there is a lot of pressure waiting to expand those cells and it'll very much try to look like my battery instantly.  You have the added danger of everything else sharp nearby wanting to turn those cells into a fireball.  Take appropriate steps to protect yourself from that danger.

[centra12]

The battery is similar in construction to the 2012 S/DS which started to burn.
Are you Zero waiting again until some FX have gone up in smoke to act?
For me, Zero has nothing to do with quality and this is another good example of that!

In Europe, some SR/S batteries (14.4) are currently being replaced because they are causing problems.

[Xenoilphobe]

Zero hasn't responded.  I have sent two messages to the inquiries@zeromotorcycles.com and now am on their SPAM list for $500 off.     I have moved the bike outside my garage and away from the house so it doesn't re-ignite.  I did attempt to hammer the battery out with a rubber mallet, but then realized I might set off a chain reaction in the compromised cell.  I am going to attempt to dissemble the frame today and make room to get this battery out. I also thought about dissembling the case to give the cells room to expand, I feel I am working on a time bomb and the this could all cause stuff to ignite/shock/burn/off gas. 

I am a service disabled vet (lungs are shot), take a wild guess how my lungs got FFFFed?  I was in a vehicle where the batteries cooked off, the nasty white smoke from the LiPOs filled the vehicle up with smoke and I couldn't get out.... by the time I was pulled out, the damage had already been done.   58 with the lungs of a 90+ year old is a not another experience I want to deal with.

I don't think I will ever buy another Zero, love my Teslas, I did go test ride the Energica, but worry that a euro brand will be worse for customer support than Zero. 

I kinda wish it had just burned up so I could file an insurance claim and make a cool YouTube video....(sarcasm)...

[JaimeC]

There's always Livewire. American made and (thanks to Harley Davidson) far more dealers than either Zero or Energica. The new Livewires compare favorably to the FX series, and even though they don't have modular (removable) batteries (I don't think the newer FX bikes do anymore either) they DO have the option of fast Level2 charging; something you can't do with the FX bikes...

[Xenoilphobe]

going from 220 lbs to 562 lbs seems crazy to me in my use case, I live on a island at the beach and the speed limit on the island is 25, I have 3 Pedego bikes that seem to be the right use case here, I just like the added torque and speed and ability to go off island for short errands to the mainland without having to take our S (mine) , X (hers) or Y (sons). 

I am just stunned that ZERO has Zero interest in resolving this, as the liability to them is massive.   

[JaimeC]

Not THAT Livewire!!!  I'm talking about the two most recent models, the Livewire 2 and the Livewire Del Mar.  You're thinking of the Livewire One.

[Xenoilphobe]

I'll check the Livewire out, I can get a base Energica for $19K right now, which has a massive battery. 21.5K I think...

[TheRan]

Energicas aren't exactly light either. How much range do you actually need to get off island and back? Which island is that if you don't mind me asking?

[Specter]

On the plus side, if your speed limit is 25 or 35 mph, the Energica should easily get you 200 plus miles per charge.  You should literally about be able to ride all day on the thing before you have to plug it in.

Aaron

[jnef]

Zero hasn't responded.  I have sent two messages to the inquiries@zeromotorcycles.com and now am on their SPAM list for $500 off.

Did you call them? 1 (888) 786-9376

You need to call their technical support HQ number, and get through to someone live.  Might have to do it during California business hours as they are in Scotts Valley..  They will take you seriously once you tell them that the battery is compromised and it might be a fire risk.  They helped me same day, even when I didn't get to them on the phone until the afternoon, since I was trying to go through the dealer first.  They got the dealer to help me the same day as well.  From burst to off of my property in the same day; granted they needed me to drive it to the dealer before close...