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[T.S. Zarathustra]

My 2018 SR has the Zero Charge Tank. Last week I plugged it into the (11kWh - Menneke Type 2 - J1772) charger at work. In 50 minutes it charged 3.07 kWh (from about 40% to about 60% charge). Not as impressive as I was expecting, or hoping for, or even close to what Zero specs for their 6 kWh Charge Tank. With the 14.4 battery it would take almost exactly 4 hours to fill from empty. Not that I've run it to empty. 
I did some searching on the interwebs but almost all information seems to be 5-10 years out of date. Manufacturers that have disappeared. Products that never made it to the market. Zero was doing some testing with CHAdeMO. They gave that up because the charge stations would not work reliably on the bikes. Now CHAdeMO seems to be disappearing and being replaced with CCS.

Does anyone know if equipment for CCS is available? Or if I can somehow unlock the full 11 kW of the charger? Or if there are any new options for chargers?

Edits.
It seems there is only one (plug and play) Fast Charge Solution for Gen 2 Zero today. That is the official Zero Charge Tank. If you want to make your own the DigiNow project source code is available. Only not very useful without lot of time spent on figuring out the hardware side. 
The reason for the slow charge in my bike has been discovered. The charger in the Zero Charge tank is single phase. Therefore it only uses 1/3 of the 11 kWh capacity of the 3 phase charging station. Now. The charger is supposedly 6 kWh. My charging cable is 680 ohm which limits charge to 4.8 kWh. My suspicion is that the charger only has 3.6 and 6.0 settings so it defaults to 3.6 when the charging cable says max 4.8.
The connector most commonly used in Europe for AC charging is the Menneke Type 2, 3 phase. It can also be used for DC charging.

The Mennekes Type 2 connector, widely used for electric vehicle (EV) charging in Europe and other regions, uses a communication protocol to determine how much current the charger should draw from the supply. This process involves several components and signals that ensure safe and efficient charging.

Belos is an overview of how the Mennekes Type 2 connector determines the appropriate current:

Components and Signals

Control Pilot (CP)
The Control Pilot signal is the main communication line between the EV and the Electric Vehicle Supply Equipment (EVSE), i.e., the charging station. It operates at a nominal 12V signal that is pulse-width modulated (PWM) to convey different information.

Proximity Pilot (PP)
The Proximity Pilot is a resistor-based signal used to detect the presence of the connector and ensure the physical connection. It also helps in determining the cable's maximum current capacity.

Communication Protocol

Initial Connection
When the connector is plugged into the vehicle, the Proximity Pilot circuit is closed. This signals the EVSE that a vehicle is connected.
Signal Levels and Resistors

The Proximity Pilot resistor value (typically ranging from 220 ohms to 1500 ohms) indicates the maximum current capacity of the cable. For example, 220 ohms might signal a cable rated for 32A, while 680 ohms might indicate a cable rated for 20A.
PWM Signal

The Control Pilot sends a PWM signal with a duty cycle that varies to indicate the maximum current the EVSE can supply. The duty cycle (percentage of time the signal is high versus low) directly correlates to the current limit. For example, a 50% duty cycle might indicate a 16A maximum current, while an 80% duty cycle could indicate a 32A limit.
Vehicle Response

The EV monitors the Control Pilot signal and adjusts its onboard charger to draw the appropriate amount of current. It will not exceed the current limit indicated by the EVSE’s PWM signal.

Safety Checks
Throughout the charging process, the Control Pilot signal continues to communicate between the EV and the EVSE to ensure safe operation. If any issues are detected (e.g., a sudden drop in voltage or a disconnection), the EVSE will immediately cease charging.
Example of Current Determination
Suppose an EVSE is capable of supplying up to 32A, and the cable connected has a 32A rating (as indicated by the Proximity Pilot resistor).
The Control Pilot PWM signal might then have an 80% duty cycle.
The EV detects this duty cycle and configures its charger to draw up to 32A.
If the EVSE or the cable had a lower rating, say 20A, the duty cycle would be lower (e.g., 50%), and the vehicle would limit its current draw accordingly.

Conclusion
The Mennekes Type 2 connector utilizes the Control Pilot and Proximity Pilot signals to manage and control the charging current safely. The communication ensures that the EV draws an appropriate amount of current based on the capabilities of the EVSE, the cable, and the vehicle’s onboard charger, preventing overloading and ensuring efficient and safe charging.


Resistor values for corresponding current for the cable

The Proximity Pilot (PP) resistor values in the Type 2 connector are used to indicate the maximum current rating of the charging cable. Here are the typical resistor values and their corresponding maximum current ratings:

Resistor Value (?)   Maximum Current (A)
1500   13A
680   20A
220   32A
100   63A

Explanation of the Table
1,500 ?: This resistor value indicates that the cable can handle up to 13A.
680 ?: This value corresponds to a cable rated for up to 20A.
220 ?: This value signifies that the cable can support up to 32A.
100 ?: This value indicates that the cable is capable of handling up to 63A.
These resistor values are used by the EVSE to detect the cable's current-carrying capacity and to adjust the Control Pilot PWM signal accordingly, ensuring safe and appropriate current delivery during the charging process.

Use of 3 single phase chargers in parallel connected to one battery and draw power from all 3 phases in the type 2 evse.

It is possible to connect three single-phase chargers in parallel to one battery and draw power from all three phases in a Type 2 EVSE setup. This method is sometimes used to maximize charging efficiency and power delivery by utilizing all available phases in a three-phase power system. Here's how it can be done and the considerations involved:

Configuration
Three Single-Phase Chargers: Each charger is connected to a different phase (L1, L2, and L3) of the three-phase supply.
Parallel Connection: The outputs of the three chargers are connected in parallel to charge a single battery.

Steps and Considerations
Charger Selection: Ensure that the chargers are compatible with single-phase power and are designed to work in parallel without interference.
Synchronization: The chargers must be synchronized to ensure they share the load evenly and do not cause imbalances. This often requires communication between the chargers.
Current Draw Management: The total current draw from each phase must be managed to avoid overloading the supply or the chargers.
Control and Monitoring: Implement a control system to monitor the voltage, current, and state of charge of the battery to ensure safe and efficient charging.
Safety Mechanisms: Include protection mechanisms like circuit breakers, fuses, and monitoring systems to handle any faults or issues.

Example Setup
Three-Phase Supply: The Type 2 EVSE provides three-phase AC power (L1, L2, L3, N, PE).

Connection:
Charger 1: Connected to L1 and N (Single-phase 230V AC)
Charger 2: Connected to L2 and N (Single-phase 230V AC)
Charger 3: Connected to L3 and N (Single-phase 230V AC)
Battery Connection: The DC outputs of the three chargers are connected in parallel to charge the battery.

Benefits
Efficient Use of Power: Utilizing all three phases maximizes the power available from the EVSE.
Reduced Charging Time: Faster charging by drawing power from all phases simultaneously.
Load Balancing: Properly configured, this setup can help balance the load across all phases.

Challenges
Complexity: Setting up and managing multiple chargers in parallel requires careful planning and control.
Synchronization: Ensuring that all chargers work harmoniously to prevent issues like phase imbalance or interference.
Cost: Additional equipment and control systems may increase the cost.

Conclusion
Using three single-phase chargers in parallel to draw power from all three phases in a Type 2 EVSE is feasible and can be an effective way to charge a single battery more efficiently. However, it requires careful design, synchronization, and control to ensure safe and optimal operation.

[JaimeC]

Forget CCS. It requires a 200V battery minimum, and ALL Zeroes use a 100V battery.  I have a 2021 SR with 14.4 battery and a Charge tank and on 6.6kW EVSEs (kind of normal around where I live) if I were stupid enough to drain the battery completely down on a ride it would take roughly two hours to bring it up to 100% but I generally start looking for stations when I hit 30% and only charge up to 80% so I'm usually only down for an hour or less (usually grabbing a bite to eat while it charges).

[TheRan]

Theoretically you could convert the DC to AC and then feed that into the charge tank, but a 6kW inverter is going to be large, expensive, and it's just more energy wasted as heat. Plus of course you're still limited to what the charge tank is going to give you and that's what you're having an issue with. Or maybe it's the station you were using and not the charge tank, we don't know unless you can use a different station and get the full output from that one.

For charging alternatives your only plug and play option would be to get some of the Delta Quiq chargers, up to 4 with some Y splitter cables. Those plus your charge tank and the on board charger would get you up to about 12kW which I think may be the limit of many stations. But it would be an expensive, bulky, and complex solution with 6 cords to hook up to the charge station. Other chargers you could get (typically up to 6.6kW per charger) will be custom orders for both the programming and to get the connections you need, but it would be much cheaper and space efficient. It really is a shame that Diginow and EVTricity gave up with supplying their chargers, I would have gladly paid their prices for something ready to go that I could easily bolt to the bottom of my bike.

[Specter]

Forget CCS. It requires a 200V battery minimum, and ALL Zeroes use a 100V battery. 

Jaime, I believe CCS actually WILL go down to 100 volts.  When I was having my charger built for my bike, I was asked, do you want your CCS range to go from 100 to 500 volt  or 200 to 1000 volt range?

With chargers it's about Amps at the ass end.  Amps = Heat, internally in the charger, everywhere.  The limiting factor on them is amps.  I think the common module for AC / DC conversion in chargers is a 500 volt module, it's range 100 to 500 volts, at 20 Amps output, so if your vehicle had a higher voltage, I believe some of the chevy's are pushing 800 volts, or plan to.  You'd need two in series.  so add them together  to get 200 volt to 1000 volt. You doubled the voltage but the Amps stay the same you won't get 40 amps, only the 20.

When you get a charger, they say, ok it's a 30 KW charger, what they really mean is that it can go UP TO 30 KW.  Meaning, to see the full 30 kw power out of it, your battery voltage would have to be at the max, in my case 500 volts.  Otherwise your power output is basically the amps times your battery voltage.

Lets say a 10 KW charger,  is 20 amps times 500 volts at max output.
if you were charging your Energica Bike, which has a 300 volt battery, now your kilowatts is that 20 amps times your 300 volt battery or only 6 KW.  It won't push you extra amps to get the 'rated' kw.

For those who are contemplating ordering a charger, keep this in mind and TELL them, Hey, I only need a 500 volt rail, which means LESS PARTS, so can I get it for a bit cheaper?

Food for thought.
Aaron

[MVetter]

200vdc is the minimum supported voltage for CCS. Point is moot anyway even if it could go to 100 because the voltage range on a Zero is 95-116.4vdc.

[karlh]

I believe the latest CCS spec says 50 volts.

[T.S. Zarathustra]

Forget CCS. It requires a 200V battery minimum, and ALL Zeroes use a 100V battery.  I have a 2021 SR with 14.4 battery and a Charge tank and on 6.6kW EVSEs (kind of normal around where I live) if I were stupid enough to drain the battery completely down on a ride it would take roughly two hours to bring it up to 100% but I generally start looking for stations when I hit 30% and only charge up to 80% so I'm usually only down for an hour or less (usually grabbing a bite to eat while it charges).

That's the thing. In theory I have the same equipment as you. But I don't get near 6,6 kWh from the 11 kWh charging point. As you can see in the picture attached to the first post, I get 3,07 in 50 minutes from 11 kWh charging point. Which calculates to roughly 3,6 kWh per hour (~0,25C). That would (theoretically) take 4 hours to fully charge from empty, or 3 hours to fully charge from 25%, etc.

Theoretically you could convert the DC to AC and then feed that into the charge tank, but a 6kW inverter is going to be large, expensive, and it's just more energy wasted as heat. Plus of course you're still limited to what the charge tank is going to give you and that's what you're having an issue with. Or maybe it's the station you were using and not the charge tank, we don't know unless you can use a different station and get the full output from that one.

For charging alternatives your only plug and play option would be to get some of the Delta Quiq chargers, up to 4 with some Y splitter cables. Those plus your charge tank and the on board charger would get you up to about 12kW which I think may be the limit of many stations. But it would be an expensive, bulky, and complex solution with 6 cords to hook up to the charge station. Other chargers you could get (typically up to 6.6kW per charger) will be custom orders for both the programming and to get the connections you need, but it would be much cheaper and space efficient. It really is a shame that Diginow and EVTricity gave up with supplying their chargers, I would have gladly paid their prices for something ready to go that I could easily bolt to the bottom of my bike.

Thank you. I'm not a great fan of splitter cables but I'll take a look at the Delta Quiq chargers.
I've tried few different stations, locations and manufacturers. I never get close to 6.6 kWh. If I got 6.6 kWh I'd be happier. I could go from 25% to 80% in under hour and half with that. Of course it would be even better if I could get the full 11 kWh and charge the batteries at 0,75C. Which is sort of why I'm searching for what the options are for Zero chargers.
The fast charger in my bike is about 10 year old design. With Moores law (as it applies to electronics like transistors instead of processors) I should be able to purchase more than twice as powerful charger for less than half the price by now (well, one can dream  ).

There is NACS charge standard, as used in Gen3 Zero's when charging from Tesla chargers (I hope I have that correct). I also hope I have it correct that the 17.3 kWh battery-pack in the Gen 3 is 102 volts nominal. So it should be possible to rework Gen 2 to use that.

[T.S. Zarathustra]

I found this. https://www.evseadapters.com/products/tesla-to-j1772-adapter/ So the Charge Tank J1772 cable connects to the Tesla Charge station. If it works at all you probably need some trickery to start the charge.

[T.S. Zarathustra]

The 3.6 kWh out of 11 kWh charger has been figured out. The Charge Tank is single phase and the charger is three phase. One third of 11 is 3.6. 3.6 kWh is 240 Volts at 15 Amps, or just under the rating for the 16 Amp fuse. According to the interwebs I can get full 6.6 kWh out of 22 kWh chargers. Now I need to find some of those.

[TheRan]

I think you may be able to get a different cord that combines the phases. Don't take my word for it but something to look into.

[Specter]

200vdc is the minimum supported voltage for CCS. Point is moot anyway even if it could go to 100 because the voltage range on a Zero is 95-116.4vdc.

Well that makes me wonder now why they asked me if I wanted the 100 volt option?  which I took, because I didn't need the 1KV for the bike.
Let me fire off an e mail to them and see what they say.
Thank you for bringing this up, now im genuinely curious.

Aaron

[TheRan]

What did you even have made? You said a charger but then said CCS option, those are mutually exclusive. Chargers take AC and turn it into DC to shove into the battery, CCS is a fixed charging stations that only puts out DC straight to the battery. In theory chademo stations go down below 100v but in reality very few do, from what I could find the J1772 and Mennekes based systems range from 200v to 1000v.

[Specter]

I posted pictures of it a while back theran.
I have a 30 KW DC fast charger that feeds off 240 vac with a CCS1 plug / protocol on it for the Energica
I had it custom made to run off house current (track current) as every other charger at that power level wants 480 3ph.

They asked me do I want 100 to 500 v or 200 to 1kv, I opted for the 1 to 5 as it'd be fewer parts and a bit cheaper, since they didn't have to double the boards for the volt output and since I did not see at that point, owning a vehicle that is running on the 800 volt platform yet.

We were discussing chargers / CCS, it was brought up that the minimum CCS can do is 200 volt, I said I believe it can do 100.

charger and ccs are NOT exclusive, charger is what you use to charge your battery, and it is assumed that no matter what you put IN to the charger you are going to get the correct DC out of it.  CCS is just a protocol, and / or perhaps you want to say form factor for the plug.

Aaron

[T.S. Zarathustra]

I think you may be able to get a different cord that combines the phases. Don't take my word for it but something to look into.

You cannot combine AC from different phases into one. If you would run each phase through AC/DC converter, you could combine the DC output from the converters.
Controlling the power is where it gets tricky. It's two separate things really. First the input power, what voltage is available, and what current you can safely draw from the supply (power grid or wall unit "charger"). That requires communications to the wall unit. Second is what to send to the battery. That requires communications with the battery. Sometimes the built in BMS handles that, in other cases not. I know my knowledge of how Zero has implemented the control is too limited, so currently I don't want to take any risks.
Too much power either way and you blow a fuse (if you're lucky). Electricity can be dangerous and quickly lead to a disaster.

Third consideration would be the space required for the equipment and how to get rid of the excess heat caused by charging.

I was surprised that the Zero Charge Tank is single phase. B2B price of the hardware required for 3 phase charging is not very high. I really expected more from 3000 dollar equipment. In my naivety I thought it was 3x2 kWh charger. I could even have accepted if they were being cheap and using the built in "slow" charger at 1.3 kWh and adding 2x2.5 kWh chargers. The solution they used is like having three lane road, plus a trail. Making two lanes and the trail dead ends, and building one expensive gate for traffic. Maybe it's because of scarcity of 3 phases in US.

The good new is that it seems I can do a simple modification to the charging cable to enable parallel use of the "slow" charger from another phase while fast charging. That would reduce fast charging time by about third on 11 kWh charger. Thank you Zeromanual com.

It's a shame that there seems to be no real, moderately priced, fast charge solution currently for sale for the Gen2 bikes. Is the market too small, or risky?

[MVetter]

What did you even have made? You said a charger but then said CCS option, those are mutually exclusive. Chargers take AC and turn it into DC to shove into the battery, CCS is a fixed charging stations that only puts out DC straight to the battery. In theory chademo stations go down below 100v but in reality very few do, from what I could find the J1772 and Mennekes based systems range from 200v to 1000v.

A charger is literally the same thing as a CCS station. A charger takes AC, either 120 or 240, and converts it to DC for the vehicle's battery. It is set to output at the battery's voltage parameters. A level 1 or level 2 EVSE is not so much a charger but a glorified extension cord with resistors and diodes.

A CCS station, or any DC fast charge station for that matter, takes AC from the grid, anywhere from 480 to god knows what (Aaron will know probably), and converts it to DC for a wide variety of vehicles' batteries. It is set for a wide variety of voltage parameters. Early gen stations were generally 200-500vdc output, but higher voltage vehicles exist now so that's changed to be an even greater range, probably 200-800vdc or something.

One could even make the argument that ALL public charging is DC charging because it's taking some form of grid AC and converting it to battery-level DC. It just happens that onboard chargers (level 1, 2) are extremely limited by comparison. And having a home CCS station built is just a matter of how many modular charging bricks the company stacks into the unit. Like, think of it as a server rack with a bunch of bays for servers. The infrastructure is ready to fully function off a single server, but as long as you have the power necessary to supply it you could be stuffing more servers, or in this case 20 amp charging modules, into a unit to make it as powerful as you need. Each module outputs a max of 20 amps from 200-500vdc, and since Aaron's bike caps out at ~75 amps @300vdc he'd need a maximum 4-module system to get his 24kW of DC fast charge juice.