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[GeneralSP]

Hi guys,

          I have a SRS 2020 with new main battery replaced. I already have a power tank and it has been not replaced. It is possible now to have the magic charge phenomena with the power tank only? I noticed since I begining to ride (Winter finished) when I come from a ride I turne the bike off, after arround one hour, I lost three or four %. Some time a win this same %.

I fully charge to 100% and after one hour the % drop to 98%. Weird situation. My bike doesn't keep his % after many day.

People with power tank and newer main battery, have  you noticed something like that?

[MVetter]

Unfortunately I would only expect problems to get worse with a Power Tank on one of the new monoliths (15.7 or 17.3). The Power Tank is constructed using the previous generation Farasis 32Ah cells. The new BCB monoliths are using the Farasis P73 cells that are a different chemistry and operate at slightly different voltage parameters. In my opinion it is a very, very bad move by Zero to sell such a pack and I urge people to either go for a Rapid Charger or keep the empty pocket as storage space. I believe this will not end well.

[DonTom]

Hi guys,

          I have a SRS 2020 with new main battery replaced. I already have a power tank and it has been not replaced. It is possible now to have the magic charge phenomena with the power tank only? I noticed since I begining to ride (Winter finished) when I come from a ride I turne the bike off, after arround one hour, I lost three or four %. Some time a win this same %.

I fully charge to 100% and after one hour the % drop to 98%. Weird situation. My bike doesn't keep his % after many day.

People with power tank and newer main battery, have  you noticed something like that?

Hi guys,

          I have a SRS 2020 with new main battery replaced. I already have a power tank and it has been not replaced. It is possible now to have the magic charge phenomena with the power tank only? I noticed since I begining to ride (Winter finished) when I come from a ride I turne the bike off, after arround one hour, I lost three or four %. Some time a win this same %.

I fully charge to 100% and after one hour the % drop to 98%. Weird situation. My bike doesn't keep his % after many day.

People with power tank and newer main battery, have  you noticed something like that?

IMO, Zero should have changed the PWR Tank when the main battery was replaced. That is if they want to do it right, instead of cheap.


-Don-  Reno, NV

[MVetter]

That would accomplish literally nothing

[GeneralSP]

ok guys, you mean they don't have new generation cells inside the new generation power tank build? they build them with the same cells since to beginning?

[MVetter]

Well they're not 1st gen cells. The first were like 22 Amp hours that made the 11.4kWh packs. The 32Ah cells are what were used in the 14.4 packs. So it's more like 4th gen.

The cells in the newest packs (5th gen?) are quite radically different than the 4th gen. They are the biggest chance in cells since 2012, really. But yes, Power Tanks are using the previous generation cells. Because they physically cannot fit the new ones in the allotted space.

[Richard230]

Maybe that the reason that my Power Tank hasn't given me much of a problem. It is the same battery design as the ones in my basic pack. My bike was manufactured (in November 2017) right before the battery pack capacity was slightly increased - as I recall.

[MVetter]

I have been very vocal about this ever since I found out that this was Zero's plan. I believe it is unsafe and irresponsible to mix and match two different cell chemistries in an EV pack.

And, historically, even at their best Power Tanks have been problematic. They have a tendency to desynch. The problem is exacerbated by packs having different ages. Like say you owned and rode your Zero regularly, but two years into it you added the PT. Those are fresh new cells on top of partially worn cells. They behave differently which often results in lift/sag that exceeds the allowable min/max delta and desynchs the pack. So then your PT is disengaged until you do a charge session to get them back in synch. I've lost count how often I've seen it on bikes I've owned and stories from other owners.

[Richard230]

I have been very vocal about this ever since I found out that this was Zero's plan. I believe it is unsafe and irresponsible to mix and match two different cell chemistries in an EV pack.

And, historically, even at their best Power Tanks have been problematic. They have a tendency to desynch. The problem is exacerbated by packs having different ages. Like say you owned and rode your Zero regularly, but two years into it you added the PT. Those are fresh new cells on top of partially worn cells. They behave differently which often results in lift/sag that exceeds the allowable min/max delta and desynchs the pack. So then your PT is disengaged until you do a charge session to get them back in synch. I've lost count how often I've seen it on bikes I've owned and stories from other owners.

In my case, the PT was installed at the factory when my bike was built, at my request. Of course, I have no idea how long the PT had been sitting on Zero's shelf before it was installed in my bike. 

[ESokoloff]

Maybe that the reason that my Power Tank hasn't given me much of a problem. It is the same battery design as the ones in my basic pack. My bike was manufactured (in November 2017) right before the battery pack capacity was slightly increased - as I recall.

Out of curiosity & to add perspective, how many miles on this now +5.5 yr arrangement?

[Specter]

I think part of the error of their ways is they fell into the trap of the 'well each unit has it's own bms' mentality and since each takes care of it's self, it should be good.  But seldom does this work out well in real life.  States of charge .vs. leakage currents as one settles, seeps into another that may not be up to it's set point etc etc.  Ive seen this a number of times on other power apps using a bunch of units in parallel.  Yes while each one is at 48 design volts, and in theory the charge current will 'dance' around as each charges...each unit has 300 friggin individual cells in it, so the dance between arms etc, basically is just adding a bunch of short cycles, which end up being long cycles and wearing them out prematurely.

Aaron

[Richard230]

Maybe that the reason that my Power Tank hasn't given me much of a problem. It is the same battery design as the ones in my basic pack. My bike was manufactured (in November 2017) right before the battery pack capacity was slightly increased - as I recall.

Out of curiosity & to add perspective, how many miles on this now +5.5 yr arrangement?

My bike only has about 10K miles as I have been riding my IC motorcycles on longer trips. However, my daughter's 2014 S with PT has about the same mileage, for the same reason (she also has a garage full of motorcycles to ride), and her bike has never had an issue with the PT getting along with the rest of the pack, either. Her PT was installed by the dealer a couple of months after purchase.

[GeneralSP]

My PT it was installed by the dealer in summer 2020. I never noticed any problem. Since my main battery began to have a magic charger symptom Zero make somes test and they changed only the main battery (This winter). Now spring is here and since this time I rode my bike only four time. The first riding I fully charged 100% and I rod until 1%. When I arrive arround a 5% battery charge I saw in the screen this notification : Warning: Power pack has been depleted. I never saw this with my old main battery.

Zero said to me about this:
“Power pack has been depleted” will often show during a long ride event as you approach a low state of charge as the power tank will hit its ‘empty’ voltage a few percent before the main power pack. From my observation, the PT will open it’s contactor when the dash shows somewhere around 10-14% charge. This is expected operation for the unit with a power tank, charging the unit will bring the modules back into sync.