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[Richard230]

Lately I have noticed that the latest Euro 5 ICE bikes seem to be getting smaller and smaller fuel tanks with every new model.  Many seem to have 12-13 liter fuel tanks, of which maybe 10 liters are actually usable before you hit reserve. Meanwhile typical mpg is around 45, which means that the practical range of these new ICE bikes would be not much over 100 miles. These distances before needing to refuel are starting to compare with many EV ranges, which I find an interesting trend. Of course, there is the difference in time to refuel or recharge, so there is that difference.

[Specter]

Yah thats the thing. 
After riding 100 miles, most riders are ready for a bit of a stretch.

The bike you can fill in like 2 minutes and be going again.
The EV, now were talking half hour or more.

If you are in a rush, not good,  if you are in a poker run, time for a drink or two

Aaron

[DonTom]

Lately I have noticed that the latest Euro 5 ICE bikes seem to be getting smaller and smaller fuel tanks with every new model. 

Perhaps for the same reason they sell E-RVs in Europe but not in the USA. Things are closer together in Europe such as gas and charge stations. Just getting to where I am right now, I saw a couple of signs that said "next service 80 miles" (130 km).


-Don-

Latitude: 26.18853, Longitude: -98.37778

[T.S. Zarathustra]

This is partly caused by the desire to be able to advertise less weight. Partly to make packaging the fuel tank easier. Partly because latest bikes have amazing fuel economy, so range is less affected than many might think. Partly because in most places fuel stations are close to each other. Partly because people doing long daily distances are small part of motorcycle owners. Partly to make each refill cheaper.
Most Euro5 bikes (that I've been looking at) have 70-100+ mpg. 
One of my pet peeves. I hate to frequently be filling up the tank, constantly smelling of gasoline, always being on the lookout for gas stations, having to factor a refill into any ride over an hour.

[Richard230]

Speaking of EVs (not motorcycles) I heard this morning on the CBS radio news that electric cars have been selling so slowly this year that U.S. inventories are backed up by 114 days on dealer's lots, compared with gas-powered cars at 73 days.

[Oilcan]

It is true that EV sales in the U.S. have slowed but they are still going up year over year and month over month. In this country EV’S are a political issue and until the 2024 presidential election is over there will be a lot of one sided news. For instance the news is that Ford is cutting their 2024 production by 50% and that’s true but if they produce the approximately 80,000 F150 Lightings in 2024 they are now forecasting ,that’s almost 4 times what they will sell in 2023.

[Specter]

What will be the main thing in years to come is how well they do what they promise.
If the truck is promising 400 miles per recharge, and the people are only getting 200 miles, THAT is going to be an issue.
If they are only getting 200 miles and have to wait in line for an hour 20 miles away from their homes for the nearest charger, THAT is going to be an issue.

Performance is going to drive whether they take off or not, all politics put aside.
At the end of the day, no matter what side of the isle you are on, people should be able to buy an EV if they WANT TO, they should not be FORCED to.  THAT is the biggest issue with the politics of it.  Especially when you consider that the electric infrastructure is not set up currently to be able to handle all those new vehicles that will need to be charged.

EV's might be the next wave but they need to be implemented smartly with the full support system as well, and not thrust upon the world with no ability to make them do what they promised.

As another side note, yes a lot of new chargers are popping up all over the place, that's a good thing.
But.. I also hear bitching about a lot of BROKEN chargers that are NOT being repaired.  that's NOT a good thing.

Aaron

[DonTom]

Speaking of EVs (not motorcycles) I heard this morning on the CBS radio news that electric cars have been selling so slowly this year that U.S. inventories are backed up by 114 days on dealer's lots, compared with gas-powered cars at 73 days.

But how is Tesla doing?


-Don-  Auburn, CA

[Fran K]

Speaking of EVs (not motorcycles) I heard this morning on the CBS radio news that electric cars have been selling so slowly this year that U.S. inventories are backed up by 114 days on dealer's lots, compared with gas-powered cars at 73 days.

But how is Tesla doing?


-Don-  Auburn, CA

Tesla I understand has lowered prices and still failed to reach the sales volume projections.  They likely are doing good on the charging systems like superchargers as brand x level 3 makes buying a strictly battery vehicle tough without more vehicles.  Would not Tesla really be more like build your own at say Ford than what is on the lot?

edit:  How about that cyber truck I was going to put a deposit on $40k for the base and 7K for auto pilot.  Something like choose 1, 2, or 3 motors and take deposits but they seem to be coming out with a 4 motor one first.

[DonTom]

Tesla I understand has lowered prices and still failed to reach the sales volume projections.  They likely are doing good on the charging systems like superchargers as brand x level 3 makes buying a strictly battery vehicle tough without more vehicles.  Would not Tesla really be more like build your own at say Ford than what is on the lot?

edit:  How about that cyber truck I was going to put a deposit on $40k for the base and 7K for auto pilot.  Something like choose 1, 2, or 3 motors and take deposits but they seem to be coming out with a 4 motor one first.

The last I heard, Tesla could not keep up with all their orders. At least perhaps they are now caught up. I sure see a lot of them on the road around here. Perhaps the most common car around here. Perhaps all those who want an EV cage already have one or more.


I will consider the Tesla Cyber Truck when my 1999 Dodge Ram (ICE)  craps out. But it will probably last longer than I will.


-Don-  Auburn, CA

[Richard230]

Tesla I understand has lowered prices and still failed to reach the sales volume projections.  They likely are doing good on the charging systems like superchargers as brand x level 3 makes buying a strictly battery vehicle tough without more vehicles.  Would not Tesla really be more like build your own at say Ford than what is on the lot?

edit:  How about that cyber truck I was going to put a deposit on $40k for the base and 7K for auto pilot.  Something like choose 1, 2, or 3 motors and take deposits but they seem to be coming out with a 4 motor one first.

The last I heard, Tesla could not keep up with all their orders. At least perhaps they are now caught up. I sure see a lot of them on the road around here. Perhaps the most common car around here. Perhaps all those who want an EV cage already have one or more.


I will consider the Tesla Cyber Truck when my 1999 Dodge Ram (ICE)  craps out. But it will probably last longer than I will.


-Don-  Auburn, CA

It seems that way around here, too. Lots of Tesla Model 3s sitting on driveway aprons plugged into the home's electrical power being slowly recharged.

[ultrarnr]

Aaron, There is a ChargePoint CCS charger near me that has been broke since 19 January 2023. It is just the latch that connects to your charging port that is broken but it would not allow power to flow when broken. ChargePoint has yet to do anything about it and after this long can only assume that ChargePoint has abandoned the charger. I think in the end Tesla will drive a lot of charging companies in bankruptcy. Who wants to charge at a 50kW charger that may or may not work when you can go to a reliable 150/250kW charger.

[DonTom]

Aaron, There is a ChargePoint CCS charger near me that has been broke since 19 January 2023. It is just the latch that connects to your charging port that is broken but it would not allow power to flow when broken. ChargePoint has yet to do anything about it and after this long can only assume that ChargePoint has abandoned the charger. I think in the end Tesla will drive a lot of charging companies in bankruptcy. Who wants to charge at a 50kW charger that may or may not work when you can go to a reliable 150/250kW charger.

If it's an older ChargePoint, it is most likely owned by the property owner and not worth the expense to repair once out of warranty. There are several CCS chargers like that here in NV and they never get repaired--and never will be, most likely.





-Don-  Reno, NV

[Specter]

Ultra, that seems to be a thing in many places.  It's not so much Chargepoint, but the people who own the charger who are at fault.  They bought it from chargepoint, probably are a member of the chargepoint network but THEY own the thing, not chargepoint.

They probably bought into the whole electric thing on the dream that it's NEEDED and they'll be in constant demand and people will come solely to their business and spend millions of dollars just because THEY have the magic charger that gives out the extra sniffy unicorn farts~!!!

THen they find out it cost them 4k or more to have the thing put in, by the certified electrician, after pulling the city permit and paying a few hundred extra for that bla bla bla.  Then they have to pay chargepoint $$$ every month for the name, and split the profits.  Now lets look at the cost of the electric, is it TOU, is it Prime or Non Prime time charging?  Oh don't forget the boost in insurance costs because you are charging electric cars now, and the fire potential.....

So the thing ran for half a year, then broke, because some mouth breather forced it to get it out of their car.  They never made any profit off it, and now are making ZERO income period off it, but still are in the contract for $$ a month to use the chargepoint name, and it will cost 800 more dollars for the new switch, well, the entire cable assembly actually, they won't sell just the switch, AND the certified electrician to repair it.  Oh lets not forget the 4 month backlog on the cables, they are out of stock.

Sooo.....They decided to let it rot, it's a money suck on them, not to mention,  the people who DO charge there don't shop at their store anyways, they go  get their starbucks coffee, and then just sit there, taking up a parking space for an hour and a half, leeching their free wifi so they can update their selfie on fakebook and bitch about how inconvenient that charging location is for them.

I have a feeling there are going to be a LOT of broken chargers in the future.  Unless YOU / WE want to pay 75 cents to a dollar a KW/hr to make it profitable for someone to put one in, (I think we all know the answer to that one) I just don't see it happening for long.  The govt grants are mostly bullshit and so restrictive, and I don't think they cover continual maintenance and repairs.

Oh and just wait until the states figure out how to tax them more and the price to charge is 3 dollars per Kw/hr because of all the extra fees and taxes

Aaron

[Richard230]

7 years ago one of my friends used to work for a major local San Francisco radio station. He said that the company paid to install 3 Chargepoint chargers in their parking garage. They did this because their employees demanded it since the station was pushing for everyone to buy EVs to save the environment on their new programs. Then the employees who were driving new expensive EVs demanded that they get free charging as that was what many government agencies were doing in the area at the time. It didn't take long for the radio station managers to get tired of the owners of these EV whining and fighting over the three charger parking spots and the company eventually started to require payment to use the chargers. As soon as they did that, they discovered that they were no longer being used. About a year later, they turned off the juice and recently the station moved to a new location when their lease expired. They moved in to a high-rise office building in SF with no free parking and no local charging facilities available.  And so it goes......